Discussion:
Bridge Queues for Data Replication
Pasha, Mir Musthafa Ali - Contractor {BIS}
2013-08-21 00:07:20 UTC
Permalink
Hello,
I was wondering if Websphere MQ allows creating a bridge between 2 queues just like how TIBCO EMS does.

My situation is something like this:
I have 2 queues(Q1 and Q2) on the same Queue Manager QM1. App A1 is putting data into Q1 and App A2 is consuming Q1's data.
I need to replicate/backup the data in Q1 to Q2 so that it can be used for someother purpose(May be for e.g., Move it to Test database for Simulating issues with Prod data).

I was told that, Using TIBCO EMS, we can easily create a bridge between Q1 and Q2, so that data in Q1 is duplicated in real time to Q2 without any data loss even when A1 is consuming it in real time and without any change to A1/A2 apps. I am looking for similar capability in Websphere MQ.

I know you can sort of do it by creating a Local and Remote queues, or by setting up a MQ trigger script to copy the data. But these involve additional scripting and may incur some data loss when there are more than one consumer for the same data. Any thoughts or is it a Potential RFC?


Sincerely,
Mir Musthafa Ali Pasha
PepsiCo, Inc. | BIS
MQ | Substation | TIBCO File Adapter | DRF/OS2 | QPasa Support
Work: 972-963-1622 | Cell: 469-237-0563


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Bob Juch
2013-08-21 01:00:25 UTC
Permalink
Sure, just make your target a distribution list which contains both queues.

Bob Juch
Juch Services LLC

On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 8:07 PM, Pasha, Mir Musthafa Ali - Contractor {BIS}
Hello,****
I was wondering if Websphere MQ allows creating a bridge between 2 queues
just like how TIBCO EMS does. ****
** **
My situation is something like this: ****
I have 2 queues(Q1 and Q2) on the same Queue Manager QM1. App A1 is
putting data into Q1 and App A2 is consuming Q1’s data. ****
I need to replicate/backup the data in Q1 to Q2 so that it can be used for
someother purpose(May be for e.g., Move it to Test database for Simulating
issues with Prod data).****
** **
I was told that, Using TIBCO EMS, we can easily create a bridge between Q1
and Q2, so that data in Q1 is duplicated in real time to Q2 without any
data loss even when A1 is consuming it in real time and without any change
to A1/A2 apps. I am looking for similar capability in Websphere MQ. ****
** **
I know you can sort of do it by creating a Local and Remote queues, or by
setting up a MQ trigger script to copy the data. But these involve
additional scripting and may incur some data loss when there are more than
one consumer for the same data. Any thoughts or is it a Potential RFC?****
** **
** **
*Sincerely,*
Mir Musthafa Ali Pasha****
PepsiCo, Inc. | BIS****
MQ | Substation | TIBCO File Adapter | DRF/OS2 | QPasa Support****
Work: 972-963-1622 | Cell: 469-237-0563****
** **
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T.Rob
2013-08-21 01:54:48 UTC
Permalink
You can put to an alias and have that alias replicate messages to two
queues.

You can use an exit to replicate messages in one queue to another.



That said it's a good idea to make an RFE when you find highly useful
functionality in a competitor that WMQ doesn't have, if for no other reason
than to put IBM on notice as to why it is you might have reason to consider
some other product. Assuming it's a popular RFE, it would get serious
consideration.



Always be sure to publicize the RFE because there is no RSS feed of new
requests, no subscription for new requests and the search is pretty
primitive. (Last I checked anyway. My IBM ID is horribly, horribly broken
and IBM can't seem to fix it so I can't sign on and check the functionality
of the RFE community at the moment, but that's another story. To paraphrase
an old advertisement, IBM is *so* ready for IBM.)



-- T.Rob





From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
Pasha, Mir Musthafa Ali - Contractor {BIS}
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 20:07 PM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Bridge Queues for Data Replication



Hello,

I was wondering if Websphere MQ allows creating a bridge between 2 queues
just like how TIBCO EMS does.



My situation is something like this:

I have 2 queues(Q1 and Q2) on the same Queue Manager QM1. App A1 is putting
data into Q1 and App A2 is consuming Q1's data.

I need to replicate/backup the data in Q1 to Q2 so that it can be used for
someother purpose(May be for e.g., Move it to Test database for Simulating
issues with Prod data).



I was told that, Using TIBCO EMS, we can easily create a bridge between Q1
and Q2, so that data in Q1 is duplicated in real time to Q2 without any data
loss even when A1 is consuming it in real time and without any change to
A1/A2 apps. I am looking for similar capability in Websphere MQ.



I know you can sort of do it by creating a Local and Remote queues, or by
setting up a MQ trigger script to copy the data. But these involve
additional scripting and may incur some data loss when there are more than
one consumer for the same data. Any thoughts or is it a Potential RFC?





Sincerely,

Mir Musthafa Ali Pasha

PepsiCo, Inc. | BIS

MQ | Substation | TIBCO File Adapter | DRF/OS2 | QPasa Support

Work: 972-963-1622 | Cell: 469-237-0563





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Neil Casey
2013-08-21 04:06:45 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

You are quite correct that Tibco EMS can very simply implement this capability using a bridge.

There is also a simple (even if not quite so simple as EMS) way to do this using MQ v7+, except that it doesn't work.

1. Create an administrative topic to be the destination of the alias
2. Create a qalias with targtype topic pointing to the topic
3. The put program uses this alias
4. Create 2 target queues
5. Create 2 administrative subscriptions against the topic to place the messages into 2 target queues
6. Have the receiving application and the monitor app (or whatever the second app is) receive from these queues which receive the subscriptions

There is no scripting or excessive overhead involved.

The reason this doesn't work is that MQ will create the messages from the subscriptions with different message ids than the original message created by the putting application. For some applications this might actually be OK, but in the general case, it will often make things like Request/Response messaging fail, as the standard behaviour is to use the original message id as the correlation id of the response.

There is an existing RFE which requests an enhancement to allow a subscription (or a topic definition) to specify that messages received via that subscription, or all messages distributed via the topic, should have the same message id and other metadata (in the mqmd) rather than the current implementation which generates unique message ids in all cases. The RFE asks for this to be controlled by a configuration value on the subscription and/or topic.

The RFE is http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=35062

It currently has 21 votes and 8 comments.

This is a perfect example of a use case which would be enabled by implementation of this RFE. If you decide to vote for it, you might also like to add a comment regarding the use case.

Regards,

Neil Casey.
You can put to an alias and have that alias replicate messages to two queues.
You can use an exit to replicate messages in one queue to another.
That said it's a good idea to make an RFE when you find highly useful functionality in a competitor that WMQ doesn't have, if for no other reason than to put IBM on notice as to why it is you might have reason to consider some other product. Assuming it's a popular RFE, it would get serious consideration.
Always be sure to publicize the RFE because there is no RSS feed of new requests, no subscription for new requests and the search is pretty primitive. (Last I checked anyway. My IBM ID is horribly, horribly broken and IBM can't seem to fix it so I can't sign on and check the functionality of the RFE community at the moment, but that's another story. To paraphrase an old advertisement, IBM is *so* ready for IBM.)
-- T.Rob
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 20:07 PM
Subject: Bridge Queues for Data Replication
Hello,
I was wondering if Websphere MQ allows creating a bridge between 2 queues just like how TIBCO EMS does.
I have 2 queues(Q1 and Q2) on the same Queue Manager QM1. App A1 is putting data into Q1 and App A2 is consuming Q1’s data.
I need to replicate/backup the data in Q1 to Q2 so that it can be used for someother purpose(May be for e.g., Move it to Test database for Simulating issues with Prod data).
I was told that, Using TIBCO EMS, we can easily create a bridge between Q1 and Q2, so that data in Q1 is duplicated in real time to Q2 without any data loss even when A1 is consuming it in real time and without any change to A1/A2 apps. I am looking for similar capability in Websphere MQ.
I know you can sort of do it by creating a Local and Remote queues, or by setting up a MQ trigger script to copy the data. But these involve additional scripting and may incur some data loss when there are more than one consumer for the same data. Any thoughts or is it a Potential RFC?
Sincerely,
Mir Musthafa Ali Pasha
PepsiCo, Inc. | BIS
MQ | Substation | TIBCO File Adapter | DRF/OS2 | QPasa Support
Work: 972-963-1622 | Cell: 469-237-0563
List Archive - Manage Your List Settings - Unsubscribe
Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com
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Neil Casey
2013-08-21 04:28:58 UTC
Permalink
Hi Bob,

unfortunately, the coding required to put to a distribution list is different to that of a queue, and the application has to be altered to make this work.

In an ideal world, the original application which puts the message would be unchanged, and the messaging system would implement the duplication.

Regards,

Neil Casey.
Post by Bob Juch
Sure, just make your target a distribution list which contains both queues.
Bob Juch
Juch Services LLC
Hello,
I was wondering if Websphere MQ allows creating a bridge between 2 queues just like how TIBCO EMS does.
I have 2 queues(Q1 and Q2) on the same Queue Manager QM1. App A1 is putting data into Q1 and App A2 is consuming Q1’s data.
I need to replicate/backup the data in Q1 to Q2 so that it can be used for someother purpose(May be for e.g., Move it to Test database for Simulating issues with Prod data).
I was told that, Using TIBCO EMS, we can easily create a bridge between Q1 and Q2, so that data in Q1 is duplicated in real time to Q2 without any data loss even when A1 is consuming it in real time and without any change to A1/A2 apps. I am looking for similar capability in Websphere MQ.
I know you can sort of do it by creating a Local and Remote queues, or by setting up a MQ trigger script to copy the data. But these involve additional scripting and may incur some data loss when there are more than one consumer for the same data. Any thoughts or is it a Potential RFC?
Sincerely,
Mir Musthafa Ali Pasha
PepsiCo, Inc. | BIS
MQ | Substation | TIBCO File Adapter | DRF/OS2 | QPasa Support
Work: 972-963-1622 | Cell: 469-237-0563
List Archive - Manage Your List Settings - Unsubscribe
Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com
List Archive - Manage Your List Settings - Unsubscribe
Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com
To unsubscribe, write to LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org and,
in the message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES
Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in
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Archive: http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html
LM Demey (MQ)
2013-08-21 07:41:34 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

On Win/Lin platforms, you can also use the MA01 Support Pack, witch is
able to move messages from one queue to one or more queues, in a
transactionnal way.
I use it when msgid and pubsub is an issue.

HTH.
Post by Neil Casey
Hi,
You are quite correct that Tibco EMS can very simply implement this
capability using a bridge.
There is also a simple (even if not quite so simple as EMS) way to do
this using MQ v7+, except that it doesn't work.
1. Create an administrative topic to be the destination of the alias
2. Create a qalias with targtype topic pointing to the topic
3. The put program uses this alias
4. Create 2 target queues
5. Create 2 administrative subscriptions against the topic to place
the messages into 2 target queues
6. Have the receiving application and the monitor app (or whatever the
second app is) receive from these queues which receive the subscriptions
There is no scripting or excessive overhead involved.
The reason this doesn't work is that MQ will create the messages from
the subscriptions with different message ids than the original message
created by the putting application. For some applications this might
actually be OK, but in the general case, it will often make things
like Request/Response messaging fail, as the standard behaviour is to
use the original message id as the correlation id of the response.
There is an existing RFE which requests an enhancement to allow a
subscription (or a topic definition) to specify that messages received
via that subscription, or all messages distributed via the topic,
should have the same message id and other metadata (in the mqmd)
rather than the current implementation which generates unique message
ids in all cases. The RFE asks for this to be controlled by a
configuration value on the subscription and/or topic.
The RFE
is http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=35062
It currently has 21 votes and 8 comments.
This is a perfect example of a use case which would be enabled by
implementation of this RFE. If you decide to vote for it, you might
also like to add a comment regarding the use case.
Regards,
Neil Casey.
Post by T.Rob
You can put to an alias and have that alias replicate messages to two
queues.
You can use an exit to replicate messages in one queue to another.
That said it's a good idea to make an RFE when you find highly useful
functionality in a competitor that WMQ doesn't have, if for no other
reason than to put IBM on notice as to why it is you might have
reason to consider some other product. Assuming it's a popular RFE,
it would get serious consideration.
Always be sure to publicize the RFE because there is no RSS feed of
new requests, no subscription for new requests and the search is
pretty primitive. (Last I checked anyway. My IBM ID is horribly,
horribly broken and IBM can't seem to fix it so I can't sign on and
check the functionality of the RFE community at the moment, but
that's another story. To paraphrase an old advertisement, IBM is
**so** ready for IBM.)
-- T.Rob
Behalf Of *Pasha, Mir Musthafa Ali - Contractor {BIS}
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 20, 2013 20:07 PM
*Subject:* Bridge Queues for Data Replication
Hello,
I was wondering if Websphere MQ allows creating a bridge between 2
queues just like how TIBCO EMS does.
I have 2 queues(Q1 and Q2) on the same Queue Manager QM1. App A1 is
putting data into Q1 and App A2 is consuming Q1’s data.
I need to replicate/backup the data in Q1 to Q2 so that it can be
used for someother purpose(May be for e.g., Move it to Test database
for Simulating issues with Prod data).
I was told that, Using TIBCO EMS, we can easily create a bridge
between Q1 and Q2, so that data in Q1 is duplicated in real time to
Q2 without any data loss even when A1 is consuming it in real time
and without any change to A1/A2 apps. I am looking for similar
capability in Websphere MQ.
I know you can sort of do it by creating a Local and Remote queues,
or by setting up a MQ trigger script to copy the data. But these
involve additional scripting and may incur some data loss when there
are more than one consumer for the same data. Any thoughts or is it a
Potential RFC?
/Sincerely,/
Mir Musthafa Ali Pasha
PepsiCo, Inc. | BIS
MQ | Substation | TIBCO File Adapter | DRF/OS2 | QPasa Support
Work: 972-963-1622 | Cell: 469-237-0563
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://www.demey-consulting.fr/ - lmd at demey-consulting dot fr


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Potkay, Peter M (CTO Architecture + Engineering)
2013-08-21 11:29:40 UTC
Permalink
Another option is Capitalware's Message Multiplexer
http://www.capitalware.biz/mmx_overview.html




Peter Potkay


From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of LM Demey (MQ)
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:42 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Bridge Queues for Data Replication

Hello,

On Win/Lin platforms, you can also use the MA01 Support Pack, witch is able to move messages from one queue to one or more queues, in a transactionnal way.
I use it when msgid and pubsub is an issue.

HTH.

Le 21/08/2013 06:06, Neil Casey a écrit :
Hi,

You are quite correct that Tibco EMS can very simply implement this capability using a bridge.

There is also a simple (even if not quite so simple as EMS) way to do this using MQ v7+, except that it doesn't work.

1. Create an administrative topic to be the destination of the alias
2. Create a qalias with targtype topic pointing to the topic
3. The put program uses this alias
4. Create 2 target queues
5. Create 2 administrative subscriptions against the topic to place the messages into 2 target queues
6. Have the receiving application and the monitor app (or whatever the second app is) receive from these queues which receive the subscriptions

There is no scripting or excessive overhead involved.

The reason this doesn't work is that MQ will create the messages from the subscriptions with different message ids than the original message created by the putting application. For some applications this might actually be OK, but in the general case, it will often make things like Request/Response messaging fail, as the standard behaviour is to use the original message id as the correlation id of the response.

There is an existing RFE which requests an enhancement to allow a subscription (or a topic definition) to specify that messages received via that subscription, or all messages distributed via the topic, should have the same message id and other metadata (in the mqmd) rather than the current implementation which generates unique message ids in all cases. The RFE asks for this to be controlled by a configuration value on the subscription and/or topic.

The RFE is http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=35062

It currently has 21 votes and 8 comments.

This is a perfect example of a use case which would be enabled by implementation of this RFE. If you decide to vote for it, you might also like to add a comment regarding the use case.

Regards,

Neil Casey.

On 21/08/2013, at 11:54 AM, T.Rob <t.rob-CkT6zf+urXSzW/GOMZKyElesiRL1/***@public.gmane.org<mailto:***@IOPTCONSULTING.COM>> wrote:


You can put to an alias and have that alias replicate messages to two queues.
You can use an exit to replicate messages in one queue to another.

That said it's a good idea to make an RFE when you find highly useful functionality in a competitor that WMQ doesn't have, if for no other reason than to put IBM on notice as to why it is you might have reason to consider some other product. Assuming it's a popular RFE, it would get serious consideration.

Always be sure to publicize the RFE because there is no RSS feed of new requests, no subscription for new requests and the search is pretty primitive. (Last I checked anyway. My IBM ID is horribly, horribly broken and IBM can't seem to fix it so I can't sign on and check the functionality of the RFE community at the moment, but that's another story. To paraphrase an old advertisement, IBM is *so* ready for IBM.)

-- T.Rob


From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Pasha, Mir Musthafa Ali - Contractor {BIS}
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 20:07 PM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/***@public.gmane.orgAC.AT>
Subject: Bridge Queues for Data Replication

Hello,
I was wondering if Websphere MQ allows creating a bridge between 2 queues just like how TIBCO EMS does.

My situation is something like this:
I have 2 queues(Q1 and Q2) on the same Queue Manager QM1. App A1 is putting data into Q1 and App A2 is consuming Q1's data.
I need to replicate/backup the data in Q1 to Q2 so that it can be used for someother purpose(May be for e.g., Move it to Test database for Simulating issues with Prod data).

I was told that, Using TIBCO EMS, we can easily create a bridge between Q1 and Q2, so that data in Q1 is duplicated in real time to Q2 without any data loss even when A1 is consuming it in real time and without any change to A1/A2 apps. I am looking for similar capability in Websphere MQ.

I know you can sort of do it by creating a Local and Remote queues, or by setting up a MQ trigger script to copy the data. But these involve additional scripting and may incur some data loss when there are more than one consumer for the same data. Any thoughts or is it a Potential RFC?


Sincerely,
Mir Musthafa Ali Pasha
PepsiCo, Inc. | BIS
MQ | Substation | TIBCO File Adapter | DRF/OS2 | QPasa Support
Work: 972-963-1622 | Cell: 469-237-0563


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--

Luc-Michel Demey - Freelance WAS & WMQ Expert

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