Discussion:
requesting a SSL cert for a qmgr and the cert admin is asking for a URL as the common name of cert?
Costa, D. (Damian)
2014-08-15 10:55:41 UTC
Permalink
HI all,
Filling in forms for getting a SSL cert for one of our qmgrs and the Cert admin wants a mandatory URL as the common name for the SSL cert I am requesting.
What do I put in as the common URL if it is just for a qmgr? Does an IP address cut it?
thanks


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Istvan M.
2014-08-21 07:09:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Costa,

in cases like this one I try to add the FQDN if exists, if not then the
host's IP address, works smoothly.
Post by Costa, D. (Damian)
HI all,
Filling in forms for getting a SSL cert for one of our qmgrs and the
Cert admin wants a mandatory URL as the common name for the SSL cert I am
requesting.
What do I put in as the common URL if it is just for a qmgr? Does an IP address cut it?
thanks
********************
Nedbank Limited Reg No 1951/000009/06. The following link displays
the names of the Nedbank Board of Directors and Company Secretary.
[ http://www.nedbank.co.za/terms/DirectorsNedbank.htm ]
This email is confidential and is intended for the addressee only.
The following link will take you to Nedbank's legal notice.
[ http://www.nedbank.co.za/terms/EmailDisclaimer.htm ]
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Kerry Swemmer
2014-08-22 10:20:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Damian,

Make sure they aren’t giving you a browser certificate, the certificate must be signed with the correct template to enable Key Encipherment for Key Usage, not just Digital Signature.

As per SSL/TLS protocols specifications (RFC 2246 and 3280), any
certificate (public/private keypair) that you use for SSL purposes MUST
have a "keyEncipherment" bit set in "KeyUsage" extension.
If not, then the certificate can't be used for SSL purposes.

To solve this problem, customer must contact the CA who signed the
certificate and make sure that the "KeyUsage" extension has the
"keyEncipherment" bit configured correctly.

Cheers,
Kerry.
From: MQSeries List [mailto:***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT] On Behalf Of Istvan M.
Sent: 21 August 2014 09:09 AM
To: ***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT
Subject: Re: requesting a SSL cert for a qmgr and the cert admin is asking for a URL as the common name of cert?

Hi Costa,

in cases like this one I try to add the FQDN if exists, if not then the host's IP address, works smoothly.

On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Costa, D. (Damian) <***@nedbank.co.za<mailto:***@nedbank.co.za>> wrote:
HI all,
Filling in forms for getting a SSL cert for one of our qmgrs and the Cert admin wants a mandatory URL as the common name for the SSL cert I am requesting.
What do I put in as the common URL if it is just for a qmgr? Does an IP address cut it?
thanks


********************
Nedbank Limited Reg No 1951/000009/06. The following link displays
the names of the Nedbank Board of Directors and Company Secretary.
[ http://www.nedbank.co.za/terms/DirectorsNedbank.htm ]
This email is confidential and is intended for the addressee only.
The following link will take you to Nedbank's legal notice.
[ http://www.nedbank.co.za/terms/EmailDisclaimer.htm ]
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Ian Alderson
2014-08-22 13:20:29 UTC
Permalink
Damian,
A url specified in the CN (Common Name) is normally used for certificates in web servers so that a browser can validate the domain name to the value in the certificate's CN field. There is no concept in MQ whereby MQ honours a validation between the host and a url stored in the certificate. So a mandatory url in the CN for SSL certs looks to me like a rule they have set up for web server certs but have not fully thought through or understood how MQ SSL mutual authentication works.

For MQ you have the SSLPEER field in the channel definition which can validate any of the fields in the DN (Distinguished Name), including the CN. And from MQ 7.1 you also have CHLAUTH rules which can give you a lot more options in securing channels based on the certificate. But there is nothing like a dns reverse lookup like you would get in a browser.

As I would expect that you already have Qmgr certs signed by this CA (Certificate Authority), then you may well find that you have a precedent or standard for what goes in the CN and follow that. You can put anything you like in the CN field and it would work but bear in mind the following:
(i) The CN value should ideally have some meaning or relationship to the Queue Manager it will be used with
(ii) A CA will likely have a policy of enforcing uniqueness of a CN when signing a certificate. So if you use something like a FQDN of where the Qmgr runs, be aware that you may need to adapt that to have unique CNs for 2 or more queue managers running on the same host
(iii) The value in the CN is not to be confused with the label of the certificate in the CMS key DB. The certificate's label must be specified in a very specific format for the Queue manager to pick it up, but does not care what the CN field is set to
(iv) when formulating SSLPEER matching (Channel definition or CHLAUTH rule) to validate a partner's certificate, keep in mind that the value of the CN will almost certainly form part of that check, if not the whole DN


So I think you have two options. Go along with the mandatory format your CA is imposing, or argue your case that a mandatory url has no meaning to MQ and that you can just as easily set up your channel authentication based on any meaningful unique value.

Hope that helps,
Ian



Ian Alderson
MQ Technical Architect

DL 0203 003 3055
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Ignis Asset Management

Fixed Income | Equities |Real Estate |Advisors |Solutions
150 Cheapside | London | EC2V 6ET

http://www.ignisasset.com
http://twitter.com/IgnisAM
http://www.linkedin.com/companies/ignis-asset-management



-----Original Message-----
From: MQSeries List [mailto:***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT] On Behalf Of Costa, D. (Damian)
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 11:56 AM
To: ***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT
Subject: requesting a SSL cert for a qmgr and the cert admin is asking for a URL as the common name of cert?

HI all,
Filling in forms for getting a SSL cert for one of our qmgrs and the Cert admin wants a mandatory URL as the common name for the SSL cert I am requesting.
What do I put in as the common URL if it is just for a qmgr? Does an IP address cut it?
thanks


********************
Nedbank Limited Reg No 1951/000009/06. The following link displays the names of the Nedbank Board of Directors and Company Secretary.
[ http://www.nedbank.co.za/terms/DirectorsNedbank.htm ] This email is confidential and is intended for the addressee only.
The following link will take you to Nedbank's legal notice.
[ http://www.nedbank.co.za/terms/EmailDisclaimer.htm ]
********************

To unsubscribe, write to ***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT and, in the message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com
Archive: http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html
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Registered Office: 50 Bothwell Street, Glasgow, G2 6HR, Tel: 0141-222-8000 and Scottish Mutual PEP & ISA Managers Limited* (Registered in England No. 971504)
Registered Office: 150 Cheapside, London, EC2V 6ET and Ignis Investment Management Limited (Registered in England No. 5809046)
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T.Rob
2014-08-22 13:57:03 UTC
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I do not have time to look it up right now but if you search the list archives for "CA Browser Forum" you will find some emails from me discussing this issue. The CABF is the industry consortium who determine the rules that commercial CAs follow. They changed their regulations some time ago to require a Fully Qualified Domain Name (FQDN)in the Common Name field. I posted to the list the links to their announcement of the rule change.

The immediate result of this was that people who had previously used the QMgr name, or anything other than a FQDN where the domain was one they could provably own, had to replace rather than renew their commercial CA-issued certs. The cost differential for shops with thousands of certs was so significant that many gave up altogether and started their own internal CA. The proliferation of mind-numbingly unsecure internal CAs was what prompted me to write the "How To Build and Operate a CA Center of Mediocrity" presentation. (http://iopt.us/CACOM)

The primary requirements are a) that your Common Name include a verifiable FQDN; and b) that the ORG and related fields *exactly* match the WHOIS listing for that domain. So if the domain address is your corporate HQ in NY and the server physically resides in the California NOC, guess what your ORG fields need to say... the HQ address.

On the other hand, they do not verify anything in the FQDN except the domain name, and that the CN you provide is unique. So the FQDN you give them can be internal and not visible to the Internet. But if it's a web server or anything that validates the CN, you now cannot use an internal, unregistered domain name for your Dev, Test, QA and other staging environment. Requiring the CN to be in FQDN format and that the DN in the FQDN must be a registered domain essentially forces you to provide the CA the topology of all your internal network nodes for which they issue a cert. That's not too terrible but it is also a disincentive to ever using revocation capabilities, because then those internal node names show up on the public revocation list. Awesome.

My recommendation is to guarantee uniqueness by specifying multiple subdomains where one is MQ and the other is the QMgr name. For example, venus.mq.example.com for the VENUS QMgr in the example.com domain. (DNS names are case-insensitive by definition so I stuck with the convention of writing it in lower case, even though the QMgr name is UPPER.) This naming convention prevents a situation where a QMgr and a web app server compete for the same CN (i.e. CN=payroll.example.com). This assumes the enterprise reserves the mq subdomain for the mq team, of course.

It used to be a SWIFT standard that some of their CN fields were based on an account number or something, depending on which CA you used and the SWIFT service to which you subscribed. I was never able to find out what changes SWIFT made to accommodate the CABF rule change but if I remember correctly, they also ran their own CA. I'd be interested if anyone knows what happened there.


Kind regards,
-- T.Rob

T.Robert Wyatt, Managing partner
IoPT Consulting, LLC
+1 704-443-TROB
https://ioptconsulting.com
https://twitter.com/tdotrob
Post by Ian Alderson
-----Original Message-----
Of Ian Alderson
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: requesting a SSL cert for a qmgr and the cert admin is asking
for a URL as the common name of cert?
Damian,
A url specified in the CN (Common Name) is normally used for certificates
in web servers so that a browser can validate the domain name to the value
in the certificate's CN field. There is no concept in MQ whereby MQ
honours a validation between the host and a url stored in the certificate.
So a mandatory url in the CN for SSL certs looks to me like a rule they
have set up for web server certs but have not fully thought through or
understood how MQ SSL mutual authentication works.
For MQ you have the SSLPEER field in the channel definition which can
validate any of the fields in the DN (Distinguished Name), including the
CN. And from MQ 7.1 you also have CHLAUTH rules which can give you a lot
more options in securing channels based on the certificate. But there is
nothing like a dns reverse lookup like you would get in a browser.
As I would expect that you already have Qmgr certs signed by this CA
(Certificate Authority), then you may well find that you have a precedent
or standard for what goes in the CN and follow that. You can put anything
(i) The CN value should ideally have some meaning or relationship to the
Queue Manager it will be used with
(ii) A CA will likely have a policy of enforcing uniqueness of a CN when
signing a certificate. So if you use something like a FQDN of where the
Qmgr runs, be aware that you may need to adapt that to have unique CNs for
2 or more queue managers running on the same host
(iii) The value in the CN is not to be confused with the label of the
certificate in the CMS key DB. The certificate's label must be specified
in a very specific format for the Queue manager to pick it up, but does
not care what the CN field is set to
(iv) when formulating SSLPEER matching (Channel definition or CHLAUTH
rule) to validate a partner's certificate, keep in mind that the value of
the CN will almost certainly form part of that check, if not the whole DN
So I think you have two options. Go along with the mandatory format your
CA is imposing, or argue your case that a mandatory url has no meaning to
MQ and that you can just as easily set up your channel authentication
based on any meaningful unique value.
Hope that helps,
Ian
Ian Alderson
MQ Technical Architect
DL 0203 003 3055
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Ignis Asset Management
Fixed Income | Equities |Real Estate |Advisors |Solutions
150 Cheapside | London | EC2V 6ET
http://www.ignisasset.com
http://twitter.com/IgnisAM
http://www.linkedin.com/companies/ignis-asset-management
-----Original Message-----
Of Costa, D. (Damian)
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 11:56 AM
Subject: requesting a SSL cert for a qmgr and the cert admin is asking for
a URL as the common name of cert?
HI all,
Filling in forms for getting a SSL cert for one of our qmgrs and the
Cert admin wants a mandatory URL as the common name for the SSL cert I am
requesting.
What do I put in as the common URL if it is just for a qmgr? Does an IP address cut it?
thanks
********************
Nedbank Limited Reg No 1951/000009/06. The following link displays the
names of the Nedbank Board of Directors and Company Secretary.
[ http://www.nedbank.co.za/terms/DirectorsNedbank.htm ] This email is
confidential and is intended for the addressee only.
The following link will take you to Nedbank's legal notice.
[ http://www.nedbank.co.za/terms/EmailDisclaimer.htm ]
********************
message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES Instructions for
managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv
General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com
Archive: http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html
**************************************************************
The information contained in this email (including any attachments
transmitted within it) is confidential and is intended solely for the use
of the named person.
The unauthorised access, copying or re-use of the information in it by any
other person is strictly forbidden.
If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately by
Internet communication is not guaranteed to be timely, secure, error or
virus free. We accept no liability for any harm to systems or data, nor
for personal emails. Emails may be recalled, deleted and monitored.
Ignis Asset Management is the trading name of the Ignis Asset Management
Ignis Asset Management Limited (Registered in Scotland No. SC200801),
Ignis Investment Services Limited* (Registered in Scotland No. SC101825)
Ignis Fund Managers Limited* (Registered in Scotland No. SC85610) Scottish
Mutual Investment Managers Limited* (Registered in Scotland No. SC88674)
Registered Office: 50 Bothwell Street, Glasgow, G2 6HR, Tel: 0141-222-8000
and Scottish Mutual PEP & ISA Managers Limited* (Registered in England No.
971504) Registered Office: 150 Cheapside, London, EC2V 6ET and Ignis
Investment Management Limited (Registered in England No. 5809046)
Registered Office: 150 Cheapside, London, EC2V 6ET Tel: 020 3003 3000.
Scottish Mutual is a registered trade mark of Scottish Mutual Assurance
Limited
*Authorised and regulated in the United Kingdom by the Financial Conduct Authority.
Ignis Asset Management Limited and its subsidiaries are part of the
Standard Life Investments group (Standard Life Investments (Holdings)
Limited and its subsidiaries).
**************************************************************
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Ian Alderson
2014-08-22 16:01:12 UTC
Permalink
T Rob,
Thanks for sharing. I did indeed find this from the cabforum
https://cabforum.org/wp-content/uploads/Guidance-Deprecated-Internal-Names.pdf

So it looks like external CAs will start revoking certificates with deprecated CN names from October 2016
"Effective 1 October 2016, CAs SHALL
revoke all unexpired Certificates whose
SAN or Subject Common Name field
contains a Reserved IP Address or
Internal Server Name. "

So it would make sense for company CAs to follow that lead for internal use as well, although not necessarily and to those timelines.

Btw, I like your VENUS example as a standard for MQ, but like you say that would need to be ratified/reserved by the company's own PKI standards people.

Ian

-----Original Message-----
From: MQSeries List [mailto:***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT] On Behalf Of T.Rob
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 2:57 PM
To: ***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT
Subject: Re: requesting a SSL cert for a qmgr and the cert admin is asking for a URL as the common name of cert?

I do not have time to look it up right now but if you search the list archives for "CA Browser Forum" you will find some emails from me discussing this issue. The CABF is the industry consortium who determine the rules that commercial CAs follow. They changed their regulations some time ago to require a Fully Qualified Domain Name (FQDN)in the Common Name field. I posted to the list the links to their announcement of the rule change.

The immediate result of this was that people who had previously used the QMgr name, or anything other than a FQDN where the domain was one they could provably own, had to replace rather than renew their commercial CA-issued certs. The cost differential for shops with thousands of certs was so significant that many gave up altogether and started their own internal CA. The proliferation of mind-numbingly unsecure internal CAs was what prompted me to write the "How To Build and Operate a CA Center of Mediocrity" presentation. (http://iopt.us/CACOM)

The primary requirements are a) that your Common Name include a verifiable FQDN; and b) that the ORG and related fields *exactly* match the WHOIS listing for that domain. So if the domain address is your corporate HQ in NY and the server physically resides in the California NOC, guess what your ORG fields need to say... the HQ address.

On the other hand, they do not verify anything in the FQDN except the domain name, and that the CN you provide is unique. So the FQDN you give them can be internal and not visible to the Internet. But if it's a web server or anything that validates the CN, you now cannot use an internal, unregistered domain name for your Dev, Test, QA and other staging environment. Requiring the CN to be in FQDN format and that the DN in the FQDN must be a registered domain essentially forces you to provide the CA the topology of all your internal network nodes for which they issue a cert. That's not too terrible but it is also a disincentive to ever using revocation capabilities, because then those internal node names show up on the public revocation list. Awesome.

My recommendation is to guarantee uniqueness by specifying multiple subdomains where one is MQ and the other is the QMgr name. For example, venus.mq.example.com for the VENUS QMgr in the example.com domain. (DNS names are case-insensitive by definition so I stuck with the convention of writing it in lower case, even though the QMgr name is UPPER.) This naming convention prevents a situation where a QMgr and a web app server compete for the same CN (i.e. CN=payroll.example.com). This assumes the enterprise reserves the mq subdomain for the mq team, of course.

It used to be a SWIFT standard that some of their CN fields were based on an account number or something, depending on which CA you used and the SWIFT service to which you subscribed. I was never able to find out what changes SWIFT made to accommodate the CABF rule change but if I remember correctly, they also ran their own CA. I'd be interested if anyone knows what happened there.


Kind regards,
-- T.Rob

T.Robert Wyatt, Managing partner
IoPT Consulting, LLC
+1 704-443-TROB
https://ioptconsulting.com
https://twitter.com/tdotrob
Post by Ian Alderson
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Ian Alderson
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: requesting a SSL cert for a qmgr and the cert admin is
asking for a URL as the common name of cert?
Damian,
A url specified in the CN (Common Name) is normally used for
certificates in web servers so that a browser can validate the domain
name to the value in the certificate's CN field. There is no concept
in MQ whereby MQ honours a validation between the host and a url stored in the certificate.
So a mandatory url in the CN for SSL certs looks to me like a rule
they have set up for web server certs but have not fully thought
through or understood how MQ SSL mutual authentication works.
For MQ you have the SSLPEER field in the channel definition which can
validate any of the fields in the DN (Distinguished Name), including
the CN. And from MQ 7.1 you also have CHLAUTH rules which can give
you a lot more options in securing channels based on the certificate.
But there is nothing like a dns reverse lookup like you would get in a browser.
As I would expect that you already have Qmgr certs signed by this CA
(Certificate Authority), then you may well find that you have a
precedent or standard for what goes in the CN and follow that. You
(i) The CN value should ideally have some meaning or relationship to
the Queue Manager it will be used with
(ii) A CA will likely have a policy of enforcing uniqueness of a CN
when signing a certificate. So if you use something like a FQDN of
where the Qmgr runs, be aware that you may need to adapt that to have
unique CNs for
2 or more queue managers running on the same host
(iii) The value in the CN is not to be confused with the label of the
certificate in the CMS key DB. The certificate's label must be
specified in a very specific format for the Queue manager to pick it
up, but does not care what the CN field is set to
(iv) when formulating SSLPEER matching (Channel definition or CHLAUTH
rule) to validate a partner's certificate, keep in mind that the
value of the CN will almost certainly form part of that check, if not
the whole DN
So I think you have two options. Go along with the mandatory format
your CA is imposing, or argue your case that a mandatory url has no
meaning to MQ and that you can just as easily set up your channel
authentication based on any meaningful unique value.
Hope that helps,
Ian
Ian Alderson
MQ Technical Architect
DL 0203 003 3055
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-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Costa, D. (Damian)
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 11:56 AM
Subject: requesting a SSL cert for a qmgr and the cert admin is asking
for a URL as the common name of cert?
HI all,
Filling in forms for getting a SSL cert for one of our qmgrs and the
Cert admin wants a mandatory URL as the common name for the SSL cert I
am requesting.
What do I put in as the common URL if it is just for a qmgr? Does an
IP address cut it?
thanks
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