Discussion:
Request For Enhancement - Increased granularity for MQ Event Message Delivery
Potkay, Peter M (CTO Architecture + Engineering)
2013-09-27 19:07:52 UTC
Permalink
Gimmie a vote if you think it's a good idea.
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=39722

I am looking for IBM to enhance the granularity of delivery options for MQ generated Event messages. While newer Event Message types such as Configuration Events get their own queue (SYSTEM.ADMIN.CONFIG.EVENT), legacy events share common queues. Authority, Inhibit and Start Stop Events all use the SYSTEM.ADMIN.QMGR.EVENT queue and there is no option to tune this. See the Use Case below on why one would want this capability.

One potential solution would be to create an Event queue for each Event type. To be backward compatible the new Event specific queues for legacy Event types could be defined as Alias queues resolving to the classic local queues. Potentially new Alias Queue SYSTEM.ADMIN.AUTH.EVENT could resolve to local queue SYSTEM.ADMIN.QMGR.EVENT. The change would be transparent to existing users, but would give me the ability to change the Alias Queue SYSTEM.ADMIN.AUTH.EVENT however I see fit, to allow me to send Authority Events and only Authority Events where I want.

Another solution would be to convert Eventing in MQ to a pure Pub Sub implementation. With a strong topic tree structure covering all Event types a user could subscribe to very specific Event types or all Event types. And multiple users could have overlapping subscriptions, each one to the queue of their choice. Events lend themselves to a Pub Sub model where multiple users, a single user or no users might be interested in a particular event.



Use Case:
Currently I do not have a robust tool to consume any and all event message as they arrive on event queues, parsing them to understand what the Event is. On my Edge Queue Managers I need Authority Events enabled, and we monitor the SYSTEM.ADMIN.QMGR.EVENT for q depth > 0. We get paged if there is an Authority Event on an Edge Queue Manager. But this precludes me from enabling any other events that share that same event queue unless I want to get paged for every other type of event that might use that queue (ah, no thank you). This is why we want the ability to send specific event message types to specific event queues.


Peter Potkay




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T.Rob
2013-09-27 19:24:00 UTC
Permalink
Wouldn't you prefer to abandon queues altogether and natively pump these out
to topics?



In my vision, the QMgr puts the events out to topics that are as granular as
you describe, perhaps more so. Then a command or script exists that creates
the event queues as they exist today and the administrative subs to populate
them. All new monitoring apps would use the topics of interest, and legacy
apps could use the queues, but this would even support both at once. You
could then create your admin subs to a set of queues with any level of
granularity that you required.



Maybe I'm biased but to stick with event queues rather than native topics in
the next version seems backward. Then once you have topics, any granularity
of queues is user-defined.



-- T.Rob





From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
Potkay, Peter M (CTO Architecture + Engineering)
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 15:08 PM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Request For Enhancement - Increased granularity for MQ Event
Message Delivery



Gimmie a vote if you think it's a good idea.


<http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=39722>
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=39722



I am looking for IBM to enhance the granularity of delivery options for MQ
generated Event messages. While newer Event Message types such as
Configuration Events get their own queue (SYSTEM.ADMIN.CONFIG.EVENT), legacy
events share common queues. Authority, Inhibit and Start Stop Events all use
the SYSTEM.ADMIN.QMGR.EVENT queue and there is no option to tune this. See
the Use Case below on why one would want this capability.



One potential solution would be to create an Event queue for each Event
type. To be backward compatible the new Event specific queues for legacy
Event types could be defined as Alias queues resolving to the classic local
queues. Potentially new Alias Queue SYSTEM.ADMIN.AUTH.EVENT could resolve to
local queue SYSTEM.ADMIN.QMGR.EVENT. The change would be transparent to
existing users, but would give me the ability to change the Alias Queue
SYSTEM.ADMIN.AUTH.EVENT however I see fit, to allow me to send Authority
Events and only Authority Events where I want.



Another solution would be to convert Eventing in MQ to a pure Pub Sub
implementation. With a strong topic tree structure covering all Event types
a user could subscribe to very specific Event types or all Event types. And
multiple users could have overlapping subscriptions, each one to the queue
of their choice. Events lend themselves to a Pub Sub model where multiple
users, a single user or no users might be interested in a particular event.







Use Case:

Currently I do not have a robust tool to consume any and all event message
as they arrive on event queues, parsing them to understand what the Event
is. On my Edge Queue Managers I need Authority Events enabled, and we
monitor the SYSTEM.ADMIN.QMGR.EVENT for q depth > 0. We get paged if there
is an Authority Event on an Edge Queue Manager. But this precludes me from
enabling any other events that share that same event queue unless I want to
get paged for every other type of event that might use that queue (ah, no
thank you). This is why we want the ability to send specific event message
types to specific event queues.





Peter Potkay







************************************************************
This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of
addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged
information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying,
disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you
are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by
return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies.
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Jefferson Lowrey
2013-09-27 19:59:08 UTC
Permalink
Sounds like an excellent idea for a SupportPac, until the RFE gets
implemented.

Something that consumes messages from all of the event queues, and
publishes them to a strongly qualified topic tree.

Then, for example, one could use the MQTT daemon to subscribe to these
topics from an app on your mobile phone.... Perhaps the supportPac could
also do some basic transformation and produce a JSON representation
instead of the PCF message structure...

Remember that IBM does accept supportPacs from customers and vendors,
under Category 4.

Thank you,

Jeff Lowrey



From: "T.Rob" <t.rob-CkT6zf+urXSzW/GOMZKyElesiRL1/***@public.gmane.org>
To: MQSERIES-JX7+OpRa80QeFbOYke1v4oOpTq8/***@public.gmane.org,
Date: 09/27/2013 03:52 PM
Subject: Re: [MQSERIES] Request For Enhancement - Increased
granularity for MQ Event Message Delivery
Sent by: MQSeries List <MQSERIES-JX7+OpRa80QeFbOYke1v4oOpTq8/***@public.gmane.org>



Wouldn't you prefer to abandon queues altogether and natively pump these
out to topics?

In my vision, the QMgr puts the events out to topics that are as granular
as you describe, perhaps more so. Then a command or script exists that
creates the event queues as they exist today and the administrative subs
to populate them. All new monitoring apps would use the topics of
interest, and legacy apps could use the queues, but this would even
support both at once. You could then create your admin subs to a set of
queues with any level of granularity that you required.

Maybe I'm biased but to stick with event queues rather than native topics
in the next version seems backward. Then once you have topics, any
granularity of queues is user-defined.

-- T.Rob


From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf
Of Potkay, Peter M (CTO Architecture + Engineering)
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 15:08 PM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Request For Enhancement - Increased granularity for MQ Event
Message Delivery

Gimmie a vote if you think it?s a good idea.
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=39722

I am looking for IBM to enhance the granularity of delivery options for MQ
generated Event messages. While newer Event Message types such as
Configuration Events get their own queue (SYSTEM.ADMIN.CONFIG.EVENT),
legacy events share common queues. Authority, Inhibit and Start Stop
Events all use the SYSTEM.ADMIN.QMGR.EVENT queue and there is no option to
tune this. See the Use Case below on why one would want this capability.

One potential solution would be to create an Event queue for each Event
type. To be backward compatible the new Event specific queues for legacy
Event types could be defined as Alias queues resolving to the classic
local queues. Potentially new Alias Queue SYSTEM.ADMIN.AUTH.EVENT could
resolve to local queue SYSTEM.ADMIN.QMGR.EVENT. The change would be
transparent to existing users, but would give me the ability to change the
Alias Queue SYSTEM.ADMIN.AUTH.EVENT however I see fit, to allow me to send
Authority Events and only Authority Events where I want.

Another solution would be to convert Eventing in MQ to a pure Pub Sub
implementation. With a strong topic tree structure covering all Event
types a user could subscribe to very specific Event types or all Event
types. And multiple users could have overlapping subscriptions, each one
to the queue of their choice. Events lend themselves to a Pub Sub model
where multiple users, a single user or no users might be interested in a
particular event.



Use Case:
Currently I do not have a robust tool to consume any and all event message
as they arrive on event queues, parsing them to understand what the Event
is. On my Edge Queue Managers I need Authority Events enabled, and we
monitor the SYSTEM.ADMIN.QMGR.EVENT for q depth > 0. We get paged if there
is an Authority Event on an Edge Queue Manager. But this precludes me from
enabling any other events that share that same event queue unless I want
to get paged for every other type of event that might use that queue (ah,
no thank you). This is why we want the ability to send specific event
message types to specific event queues.


Peter Potkay



************************************************************
This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of
addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged
information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying,
disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you
are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by
return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies.
************************************************************


List Archive - Manage Your List Settings - Unsubscribe
Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in
the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com


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To unsubscribe, write to LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org and,
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Peter D
2013-09-27 20:13:42 UTC
Permalink
Agreed TRob!

I've talked to Mark Taylor about doing it this way as it's a method I've used successfully before -- "you want info from me? Go ahead and subscribe to my topics". IR360 already takes an advantage of this approach. So sure wish more people took your suggestion! :)

I would think that all future Ibm middleware itself will take this approach - broker already does.

/Pete
Wouldn't you prefer to abandon queues altogether and natively pump these out to topics?
In my vision, the QMgr puts the events out to topics that are as granular as you describe, perhaps more so. Then a command or script exists that creates the event queues as they exist today and the administrative subs to populate them. All new monitoring apps would use the topics of interest, and legacy apps could use the queues, but this would even support both at once. You could then create your admin subs to a set of queues with any level of granularity that you required.
Maybe I'm biased but to stick with event queues rather than native topics in the next version seems backward. Then once you have topics, any granularity of queues is user-defined.
-- T.Rob
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 15:08 PM
Subject: Request For Enhancement - Increased granularity for MQ Event Message Delivery
Gimmie a vote if you think it’s a good idea.
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=39722
I am looking for IBM to enhance the granularity of delivery options for MQ generated Event messages. While newer Event Message types such as Configuration Events get their own queue (SYSTEM.ADMIN.CONFIG.EVENT), legacy events share common queues. Authority, Inhibit and Start Stop Events all use the SYSTEM.ADMIN.QMGR.EVENT queue and there is no option to tune this. See the Use Case below on why one would want this capability.
One potential solution would be to create an Event queue for each Event type. To be backward compatible the new Event specific queues for legacy Event types could be defined as Alias queues resolving to the classic local queues. Potentially new Alias Queue SYSTEM.ADMIN.AUTH.EVENT could resolve to local queue SYSTEM.ADMIN.QMGR.EVENT. The change would be transparent to existing users, but would give me the ability to change the Alias Queue SYSTEM.ADMIN.AUTH.EVENT however I see fit, to allow me to send Authority Events and only Authority Events where I want.
Another solution would be to convert Eventing in MQ to a pure Pub Sub implementation. With a strong topic tree structure covering all Event types a user could subscribe to very specific Event types or all Event types. And multiple users could have overlapping subscriptions, each one to the queue of their choice. Events lend themselves to a Pub Sub model where multiple users, a single user or no users might be interested in a particular event.
Currently I do not have a robust tool to consume any and all event message as they arrive on event queues, parsing them to understand what the Event is. On my Edge Queue Managers I need Authority Events enabled, and we monitor the SYSTEM.ADMIN.QMGR.EVENT for q depth > 0. We get paged if there is an Authority Event on an Edge Queue Manager. But this precludes me from enabling any other events that share that same event queue unless I want to get paged for every other type of event that might use that queue (ah, no thank you). This is why we want the ability to send specific event message types to specific event queues.
Peter Potkay
************************************************************
This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies.
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Peter D
2013-09-28 14:31:36 UTC
Permalink
Hi Peter

I'll certainly give this a vote as it's something I've been suggesting to customers since about 1 year after 7.0 was released. Nice talking to you at MQTC (great event!) btw.

You mentioned not having a robust tool. Most of the robust tools do look at event queues among many other ways of getting info. Some like IR do not rely upon events to let you know queue depth => 0. So they are separated functions by nature of the tool. But some like IR can also send these events to other places .. like topics etc.

Your company should investigate what Robust means in terms of price/value. Me thinks they'd be surprised at what they can get for their dollars. The question of build vs buy has long been answered - in a landslide. See my GWC white paper among many others papers on this subject ... or ask some of the many others that you met at the MQTC ... which is another reason why it was such a great event!

Major shout out to Roger!!

/Pete
Gimmie a vote if you think it’s a good idea.
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=39722
I am looking for IBM to enhance the granularity of delivery options for MQ generated Event messages. While newer Event Message types such as Configuration Events get their own queue (SYSTEM.ADMIN.CONFIG.EVENT), legacy events share common queues. Authority, Inhibit and Start Stop Events all use the SYSTEM.ADMIN.QMGR.EVENT queue and there is no option to tune this. See the Use Case below on why one would want this capability.
One potential solution would be to create an Event queue for each Event type. To be backward compatible the new Event specific queues for legacy Event types could be defined as Alias queues resolving to the classic local queues. Potentially new Alias Queue SYSTEM.ADMIN.AUTH.EVENT could resolve to local queue SYSTEM.ADMIN.QMGR.EVENT. The change would be transparent to existing users, but would give me the ability to change the Alias Queue SYSTEM.ADMIN.AUTH.EVENT however I see fit, to allow me to send Authority Events and only Authority Events where I want.
Another solution would be to convert Eventing in MQ to a pure Pub Sub implementation. With a strong topic tree structure covering all Event types a user could subscribe to very specific Event types or all Event types. And multiple users could have overlapping subscriptions, each one to the queue of their choice. Events lend themselves to a Pub Sub model where multiple users, a single user or no users might be interested in a particular event.
Currently I do not have a robust tool to consume any and all event message as they arrive on event queues, parsing them to understand what the Event is. On my Edge Queue Managers I need Authority Events enabled, and we monitor the SYSTEM.ADMIN.QMGR.EVENT for q depth > 0. We get paged if there is an Authority Event on an Edge Queue Manager. But this precludes me from enabling any other events that share that same event queue unless I want to get paged for every other type of event that might use that queue (ah, no thank you). This is why we want the ability to send specific event message types to specific event queues.
Peter Potkay
************************************************************
This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies.
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