Discussion:
WebSphere MQSeries (WMQ) integration with Open Source messaging product
Coombs, Lawrence
2014-03-11 19:42:22 UTC
Permalink
Are there any bridges between WMQ and any open source messaging product (don't care which one)?
I am looking for a low cost solution to an integration problem I am having. I have the messages being created by a WMQ application already and need to stream it to another source.
No files, and I have some issues with security, so I need to push the data. I am thinking WMQ on one side and an Open Source provider on the other might work.
Any thoughts?

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Jefferson Lowrey
2014-03-11 20:13:40 UTC
Permalink
MQ Telemetry (MQTT) should count.

http://mqtt.org/ for the open-source side of things.

Thank you,

Jeff Lowrey



From: "Coombs, Lawrence" <Lawrence.Coombs-***@public.gmane.org>
To: MQSERIES-JX7+OpRa80QeFbOYke1v4oOpTq8/***@public.gmane.org,
Date: 03/11/2014 04:12 PM
Subject: Re: [MQSERIES] WebSphere MQSeries (WMQ) integration with
Open Source messaging product
Sent by: MQSeries List <MQSERIES-JX7+OpRa80QeFbOYke1v4oOpTq8/***@public.gmane.org>



Are there any bridges between WMQ and any open source messaging product
(don?t care which one)?
I am looking for a low cost solution to an integration problem I am
having. I have the messages being created by a WMQ application already and
need to stream it to another source.
No files, and I have some issues with security, so I need to push the
data. I am thinking WMQ on one side and an Open Source provider on the
other might work.
Any thoughts?
This message, including any attachments, is the property of Sears Holdings
Corporation and/or one of its subsidiaries. It is confidential and may
contain proprietary or legally privileged information. If you are not the
intended recipient, please delete it without reading the contents. Thank
you.


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Tim Crossland
2014-03-12 09:01:53 UTC
Permalink
Is your application using JMS, as it isn't tied to WMQ? Most open source messaging products support JMS.

Regards,

Tim Crossland
Senior Consultant

M: +44 (0)7725 208776
T: +44 (0)207 147 9955

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From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Coombs, Lawrence
Sent: 11 March 2014 19:42
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: WebSphere MQSeries (WMQ) integration with Open Source messaging product

Are there any bridges between WMQ and any open source messaging product (don't care which one)?
I am looking for a low cost solution to an integration problem I am having. I have the messages being created by a WMQ application already and need to stream it to another source.
No files, and I have some issues with security, so I need to push the data. I am thinking WMQ on one side and an Open Source provider on the other might work.
Any thoughts?
This message, including any attachments, is the property of Sears Holdings Corporation and/or one of its subsidiaries. It is confidential and may contain proprietary or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it without reading the contents. Thank you.

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Dominique Courtois
2014-03-12 11:53:41 UTC
Permalink
Hi Tim,
I am not sure this fully answers the question. JMS is not tied to WMQ or
any messaging system at the API level but the provider layer must be
compatible at the protocol level on both ends.
Regards
Dominique

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Tim Crossland
2014-03-12 13:24:32 UTC
Permalink
Absolutely, Dominique. IF their application is JMS, it would be relatively straight forward to interface with MQ and another messaging system.

However, the original email didn't specify this information, which is why I asked the question.



It would also be fairly simple to write a JMS bridge that could take messages off of MQ queues and put them onto another messaging system.

Trying to this at the transmission protocol level sounds like another level of complexity (although the MQTT suggestion sounded interesting).



Regards,


Tim Crossland
Senior Consultant

M: +44 (0)7725 208776
T: +44 (0)207 147 9955

[ZA102637858]<https://twitter.com/iconsolutions>[ZA102637857]<http://www.linkedin.com/company/icon-solutions-uk-ltd?trk=hb_tab_compy_id_549225>
[icon]<http://www.iconsolutions.com/> Solutions Ltd www.iconsolutions.com





-----Original Message-----
From: MQSeries List [mailto:***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT] On Behalf Of Dominique Courtois
Sent: 12 March 2014 11:54
To: ***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT
Subject: Re: WebSphere MQSeries (WMQ) integration with Open Source messaging product



Hi Tim,

I am not sure this fully answers the question. JMS is not tied to WMQ or any messaging system at the API level but the provider layer must be compatible at the protocol level on both ends.

Regards

Dominique



To unsubscribe, write to ***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT<mailto:***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT> and, in the message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com

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T.Rob
2014-03-12 17:15:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Crossland
It would also be fairly simple to write a JMS bridge that could take messages off of MQ queues and put them onto another messaging system.
Yes it would. *If* that was your only requirement. As others have noted, transactionality is an issue as well but even that's not necessarily the biggest issue. The few times I've worked on messaging bridges, the biggest issue was mapping the two namespaces on either side. In the simplest case you manually map a set of point-to-point routes through the bridge. But we soon run into issues if it's request/reply and there's more than one input queue or reply destination. Clustered destinations also pose an issue. Anything other than 1:1 or that requires dynamicity in routing becomes a deep problem to implement reliably and accurately.



The choice of how to qualify and resolve the namespaces on either side of the bridge is also an issue. Are they exposed to one another, and if so to what degree? Once exposed, are they managed as a shared namespace by a single admin team? Multiple teams? Using a registry? If the namespaces are not exposed to one another, then the task of mapping them manually scales as a factorial of n. How many of these will there be and is the need anticipated to grow?



In almost all cases where I've worked on cross-platform bridging, it was anticipated as point-to-point and implemented with manual mapping of the routes. In almost all cases, the need for more complex routing and the administrative resource requirements were underestimated. My advice is not to assume it's simple and find out later it's complicated. Instead, assume it's complicated and design a robust system on that basis. Then simplify it to fit the project into the available budget, but document all of the assumptions and dependencies that are created during this simplification process. That then becomes the basis for documentation and the operational policies and processes for the bridge. This drives out issues such as routing and namespace management early so they can either be addressed in code or in documentation and policy.



Kind regards,

-- T.Rob



T.Robert Wyatt, Managing partner

IoPT Consulting, LLC

+1 704-443-TROB

https://ioptconsulting.com

https://twitter.com/tdotrob



From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Tim Crossland
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 9:25 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: WebSphere MQSeries (WMQ) integration with Open Source messaging product



Absolutely, Dominique. IF their application is JMS, it would be relatively straight forward to interface with MQ and another messaging system.

However, the original email didn't specify this information, which is why I asked the question.



It would also be fairly simple to write a JMS bridge that could take messages off of MQ queues and put them onto another messaging system.

Trying to this at the transmission protocol level sounds like another level of complexity (although the MQTT suggestion sounded interesting).



Regards,



Tim Crossland

Senior Consultant



M: +44 (0)7725 208776

T: +44 (0)207 147 9955



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-----Original Message-----
From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Dominique Courtois
Sent: 12 March 2014 11:54
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: WebSphere MQSeries (WMQ) integration with Open Source messaging product



Hi Tim,

I am not sure this fully answers the question. JMS is not tied to WMQ or any messaging system at the API level but the provider layer must be compatible at the protocol level on both ends.

Regards

Dominique



To unsubscribe, write to <mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org> LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org and, in the message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at <http://www.lsoft.com> http://www.lsoft.com

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Ian
2014-03-14 17:51:18 UTC
Permalink
Take a look at Zato ESB (
https://zato.io/docs/intro/overview-high-level.html )
to bridge between RabbitMQ or ZeroMQ and JMS WMQ.

This article will give you an idea of what is possible:
http://architects.dzone.com/articles/integrate-zeromq-amqp-jms-0


Ian

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Meekin, Paul
2014-03-12 13:46:15 UTC
Permalink
We nearly had a requirement for an MQ<->other JMS bridge like this but in the end it wasn’t needed. Nevertheless it’s something I’ve thought about but never actually tried. My thinking was that you could use the MQ JMS transport by explicitly using the MQ-specific objects in your program such as MQConnectionFactory, MQQueue etc and use the other JMS transport in the same program by either using its vendor-specific classes or if it doesn’t provide them, by using the standard JMS ones but putting these before the MQ ones in your classpath etc.

Has anyone done this using 2 different JMS providers in the same program?

MQTT, if my understanding is correct, is both an API and wire standard so presumably you could simply replace the QMgr with an open source MQTT broker and carry on with no further changes required.


From: MQSeries List [mailto:***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT] On Behalf Of Tim Crossland
Sent: 12 March 2014 13:25
To: ***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT
Subject: Re: WebSphere MQSeries (WMQ) integration with Open Source messaging product


Absolutely, Dominique. IF their application is JMS, it would be relatively straight forward to interface with MQ and another messaging system.

However, the original email didn't specify this information, which is why I asked the question.



It would also be fairly simple to write a JMS bridge that could take messages off of MQ queues and put them onto another messaging system.

Trying to this at the transmission protocol level sounds like another level of complexity (although the MQTT suggestion sounded interesting).



Regards,


Tim Crossland
Senior Consultant

M: +44 (0)7725 208776
T: +44 (0)207 147 9955

[ZA102637858]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=https://twitter.com/iconsolutions&k=wdHsQuqY0Mqq1fNjZGIYnA%3D%3D%0A&r=ci4D8otONlaL2hVZCpx3l04VZWct8XdbLYsnfUNUrTc%3D%0A&m=ws2Uo5Iz7%2FuMtDZfJVAgjaSIKBh9M%2F4ccjcb6iMi88k%3D%0A&s=a6d0705b622efedae242dd32923b3c5823772713a94eb11629ed30b610b0406e>[ZA102637857]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=http://www.linkedin.com/company/icon-solutions-uk-ltd?trk%3Dhb_tab_compy_id_549225&k=wdHsQuqY0Mqq1fNjZGIYnA%3D%3D%0A&r=ci4D8otONlaL2hVZCpx3l04VZWct8XdbLYsnfUNUrTc%3D%0A&m=ws2Uo5Iz7%2FuMtDZfJVAgjaSIKBh9M%2F4ccjcb6iMi88k%3D%0A&s=172ddaed6ccf691a551c4c69e13fc630db04e062ee8c2a9902b04c94d3cffa71>
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-----Original Message-----
From: MQSeries List [mailto:***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT] On Behalf Of Dominique Courtois
Sent: 12 March 2014 11:54
To: ***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT<mailto:***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: WebSphere MQSeries (WMQ) integration with Open Source messaging product



Hi Tim,

I am not sure this fully answers the question. JMS is not tied to WMQ or any messaging system at the API level but the provider layer must be compatible at the protocol level on both ends.

Regards

Dominique



To unsubscribe, write to ***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT<mailto:***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT> and, in the message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=http://www.lsoft.com&k=wdHsQuqY0Mqq1fNjZGIYnA%3D%3D%0A&r=ci4D8otONlaL2hVZCpx3l04VZWct8XdbLYsnfUNUrTc%3D%0A&m=ws2Uo5Iz7%2FuMtDZfJVAgjaSIKBh9M%2F4ccjcb6iMi88k%3D%0A&s=b4aaec1a1228a8f29c351ae598b7c7b2cbaaf8d4350b496095f21179248ff5ab>

Archive: http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html&k=wdHsQuqY0Mqq1fNjZGIYnA%3D%3D%0A&r=ci4D8otONlaL2hVZCpx3l04VZWct8XdbLYsnfUNUrTc%3D%0A&m=ws2Uo5Iz7%2FuMtDZfJVAgjaSIKBh9M%2F4ccjcb6iMi88k%3D%0A&s=4b6b044591c4bdbfe3d246752205b44428546192c8950cb0f7f329765c46cd2e>
Dave Corbett
2014-03-12 15:30:47 UTC
Permalink
We do this all of the time. We have TIBCO's EMS product as an interface
layer between our HTTPS endpoints and TIBCO BW. Then, the TIBCO BW engine
retrieves a message from EMS, transforms it, and puts it to an MQ queue
via the MQJMS methods.

I am not a developer, but I can say that the connections to the JMS
provider is where all of the class paths are critical, and from that point
on, the BW engine just "uses" whatever JMS connection it needs depending
on what activity is being performed.

However, we are performing a very valuable task in this layer - that of
message transformation - in both directions - not just passing it through.

Thanks,
David Corbett
IBM Certified Solution Designer - WebSphere MQ V7.0
IBM Certified System Administrator - WebSphere MQ V7.0



From: "Meekin, Paul" <paul.meekin-***@public.gmane.org>
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org,
Date: 03/12/2014 08:47 AM
Subject: Re: WebSphere MQSeries (WMQ) integration with Open Source
messaging product
Sent by: MQSeries List <MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org>



We nearly had a requirement for an MQ<->other JMS bridge like this but in
the end it wasn?t needed. Nevertheless it?s something I?ve thought about
but never actually tried. My thinking was that you could use the MQ JMS
transport by explicitly using the MQ-specific objects in your program such
as MQConnectionFactory, MQQueue etc and use the other JMS transport in the
same program by either using its vendor-specific classes or if it doesn?t
provide them, by using the standard JMS ones but putting these before the
MQ ones in your classpath etc.

Has anyone done this using 2 different JMS providers in the same program?

MQTT, if my understanding is correct, is both an API and wire standard so
presumably you could simply replace the QMgr with an open source MQTT
broker and carry on with no further changes required.


From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf
Of Tim Crossland
Sent: 12 March 2014 13:25
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: WebSphere MQSeries (WMQ) integration with Open Source
messaging product

Absolutely, Dominique. IF their application is JMS, it would be
relatively straight forward to interface with MQ and another messaging
system.
However, the original email didn't specify this information, which is why
I asked the question.

It would also be fairly simple to write a JMS bridge that could take
messages off of MQ queues and put them onto another messaging system.
Trying to this at the transmission protocol level sounds like another
level of complexity (although the MQTT suggestion sounded interesting).

Regards,

Tim Crossland
Senior Consultant

M: +44 (0)7725 208776
T: +44 (0)207 147 9955


Solutions Ltd www.iconsolutions.com


-----Original Message-----
From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf
Of Dominique Courtois
Sent: 12 March 2014 11:54
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: WebSphere MQSeries (WMQ) integration with Open Source
messaging product

Hi Tim,
I am not sure this fully answers the question. JMS is not tied to WMQ or
any messaging system at the API level but the provider layer must be
compatible at the protocol level on both ends.
Regards
Dominique

To unsubscribe, write to LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org and, in the
message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES Instructions for
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Ian Alderson
2014-03-12 14:41:36 UTC
Permalink
One thing to take account of with a protocol bridge is message integrity. That is, you want to ensure that when a message is read from MQ then it will be written once and only once to the open source queue in a unit of work. If you’re writing the bridge yourself you will likely have to code for this yourself (I’m not sure it could be done within JMS over 2 providers but I’d like to hear if anyone has done this – perhaps in a JTA transaction?).

I also like the idea of MQTT. If the choice of open source product is flexible, then using an (open source) MQTT client would let a topic hosted by MQ act as the bridge rather than a custom program. Message integrity should be ensured automatically because the “bridge” is a topic hosted on the Queue Manager.
E.g.
MQ Producer -> MQ topic -> MQTT client
Instead of
MQ Queue -> Bridge Program -> Open Source Queue

Of course that may not be what Lawrence wants.

Ian




Ian Alderson
MQ Technical Architect

[cid:***@554e1c39.4ebba3cc]

DL 0203 003 3055


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From: MQSeries List [mailto:***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT] On Behalf Of Tim Crossland
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 1:25 PM
To: ***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT
Subject: Re: WebSphere MQSeries (WMQ) integration with Open Source messaging product


Absolutely, Dominique. IF their application is JMS, it would be relatively straight forward to interface with MQ and another messaging system.

However, the original email didn't specify this information, which is why I asked the question.



It would also be fairly simple to write a JMS bridge that could take messages off of MQ queues and put them onto another messaging system.

Trying to this at the transmission protocol level sounds like another level of complexity (although the MQTT suggestion sounded interesting).



Regards,


Tim Crossland
Senior Consultant

M: +44 (0)7725 208776
T: +44 (0)207 147 9955

[ZA102637858]<https://twitter.com/iconsolutions>[ZA102637857]<http://www.linkedin.com/company/icon-solutions-uk-ltd?trk=hb_tab_compy_id_549225>
[icon]<http://www.iconsolutions.com/> Solutions Ltd www.iconsolutions.com





-----Original Message-----
From: MQSeries List [mailto:***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT] On Behalf Of Dominique Courtois
Sent: 12 March 2014 11:54
To: ***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT<mailto:***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: WebSphere MQSeries (WMQ) integration with Open Source messaging product



Hi Tim,

I am not sure this fully answers the question. JMS is not tied to WMQ or any messaging system at the API level but the provider layer must be compatible at the protocol level on both ends.

Regards

Dominique



To unsubscribe, write to ***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT<mailto:***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT> and, in the message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com

Archive: http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html


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Ian Alderson
2014-03-12 15:29:22 UTC
Permalink
In the interests of balance, I found this after a quick google, JBoss’s JMS Bridge included in their open source offering HornetQ
http://docs.jboss.org/hornetq/2.3.0.CR2/docs/user-manual/html/jms-bridge.html

It also states that there are 3 qualities of service, which includes ONCE_AND_ONLY_ONCE.

I would expect there to be others out there
.




Ian Alderson
MQ Technical Architect

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From: Ian Alderson
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 2:42 PM
To: ***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT
Subject: RE: WebSphere MQSeries (WMQ) integration with Open Source messaging product

One thing to take account of with a protocol bridge is message integrity. That is, you want to ensure that when a message is read from MQ then it will be written once and only once to the open source queue in a unit of work. If you’re writing the bridge yourself you will likely have to code for this yourself (I’m not sure it could be done within JMS over 2 providers but I’d like to hear if anyone has done this – perhaps in a JTA transaction?).

I also like the idea of MQTT. If the choice of open source product is flexible, then using an (open source) MQTT client would let a topic hosted by MQ act as the bridge rather than a custom program. Message integrity should be ensured automatically because the “bridge” is a topic hosted on the Queue Manager.
E.g.
MQ Producer -> MQ topic -> MQTT client
Instead of
MQ Queue -> Bridge Program -> Open Source Queue

Of course that may not be what Lawrence wants.

Ian

From: MQSeries List [mailto:***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT] On Behalf Of Tim Crossland
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 1:25 PM
To: ***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT<mailto:***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: WebSphere MQSeries (WMQ) integration with Open Source messaging product


Absolutely, Dominique. IF their application is JMS, it would be relatively straight forward to interface with MQ and another messaging system.

However, the original email didn't specify this information, which is why I asked the question.



It would also be fairly simple to write a JMS bridge that could take messages off of MQ queues and put them onto another messaging system.

Trying to this at the transmission protocol level sounds like another level of complexity (although the MQTT suggestion sounded interesting).



Regards,


Tim Crossland
Senior Consultant

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-----Original Message-----
From: MQSeries List [mailto:***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT] On Behalf Of Dominique Courtois
Sent: 12 March 2014 11:54
To: ***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT<mailto:***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: WebSphere MQSeries (WMQ) integration with Open Source messaging product



Hi Tim,

I am not sure this fully answers the question. JMS is not tied to WMQ or any messaging system at the API level but the provider layer must be compatible at the protocol level on both ends.

Regards

Dominique



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