Discussion:
Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix
Potkay, Peter M (CTO Architecture + Engineering)
2014-02-06 12:55:34 UTC
Permalink
You can vote for this RFE here if you think it's a good idea:

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=44622



Description:
Similar to z/OS, we would like the ability to have one or more queues use a separate and dedicated of storage on Windows and Unix MQ systems.


Use case:
For example on Windows, I would like to be able to create a T:\ drive and then have the SYSTEM.DEAD.LETTER.QUEUE use that for its storage, while the rest of the Queue Manager's queues reside on the E:\ drive. On Linux, I would like to be able to create a new file system separate from /var/mqm and put QM1.XMITQ and QM2.XMITQ there, while all other queues reside in the default location.

Another use case might be to have all the queue manager's system queues (other than the DLQ) reside on the default storage, have the DLQ reside on its own storage, and app queues reside on a third section of storage. If a new app comes to use this queue manager and they have the need for a lot of deep queues occasionally, we could create a 4th area of storage and build their queues there.

Another use case would be to get a very NAS qTree, maybe 750 GB, to be used for Dead Letter Queues. Connect this NAS to each MQ server over 10 gigabit. And then aim each QM's DLQ towards this one common qTree. The odds of multiple QMs needing a large amount of storage for their DLQs at the same time is very small. But at any one time each QM would have the ability to queue up to 750 GB of dead letter messages, without having to give 750 GB of storage to QM1, another 750 GB to QM2, another 750 GB to QM3, etc., which would all end up sitting unused 99.99% of the time, but could certainly be useful at anytime.

Currently we have to use a RCVR channels Message Retry Count and Interval to try and throttle how fast messages get off loaded to a DLQ, with serious impacts to that channel's throughput for all the other innocent app's messages trying to share. Having giant jumbo DLQs would allow us to tune down these message retry counts and intervals, making for better channel performance in a shared environment when one app starts misbehaving.



Business justification:
If we could segregate the system queues from the app queues and the DLQ, we could make it more likely that the QM would not encounter a disk full situation because some app on some other Queue Manager continued to send massive volumes of messages causing a spillover to the DLQ. The common queues like DLQs and XMITQs need to be able to handle an occasional BIG message, and the occasional burst of millions of little messages, so we are forced to create the Max Q Depth and Max Message length of these queues in such a way that we are vulnerable to having the queue hold millions of small to big messages, overwhelming the underlying storage. On a shared queue manager with dozens or hundreds of queues it's not realistic to set every queue's Max Q Depth and Max Message Size to low enough levels where there is zero chance of filling your one and only amount of disk space for the entire QM. Being able to segregate queues with a higher likelihood of having to hold a large amount of data to separate storage would be very useful. Being able to segregate an app's queues to dedicated storage would allow us to make the app that requires big Max Q Depth and Max Message Size go onto their own storage, which we could then charge back to them.




Peter Potkay




************************************************************
This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies.
************************************************************

To unsubscribe, write to LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org and,
in the message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES
Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in
the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com
Archive: http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html
Coombs, Lawrence
2014-02-06 14:00:51 UTC
Permalink
Peter - This is an excellent RFE and well overdue. Someone asked me a question along the lines of this RFE the other day and you verbalized everything I was thinking.
Every administrator on the list should vote for this one.

Now!!!!!!!!!!!!

From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Potkay, Peter M (CTO Architecture + Engineering)
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 6:56 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix

You can vote for this RFE here if you think it's a good idea:

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=44622



Description:
Similar to z/OS, we would like the ability to have one or more queues use a separate and dedicated of storage on Windows and Unix MQ systems.


Use case:
For example on Windows, I would like to be able to create a T:\ drive and then have the SYSTEM.DEAD.LETTER.QUEUE use that for its storage, while the rest of the Queue Manager's queues reside on the E:\ drive. On Linux, I would like to be able to create a new file system separate from /var/mqm and put QM1.XMITQ and QM2.XMITQ there, while all other queues reside in the default location.

Another use case might be to have all the queue manager's system queues (other than the DLQ) reside on the default storage, have the DLQ reside on its own storage, and app queues reside on a third section of storage. If a new app comes to use this queue manager and they have the need for a lot of deep queues occasionally, we could create a 4th area of storage and build their queues there.

Another use case would be to get a very NAS qTree, maybe 750 GB, to be used for Dead Letter Queues. Connect this NAS to each MQ server over 10 gigabit. And then aim each QM's DLQ towards this one common qTree. The odds of multiple QMs needing a large amount of storage for their DLQs at the same time is very small. But at any one time each QM would have the ability to queue up to 750 GB of dead letter messages, without having to give 750 GB of storage to QM1, another 750 GB to QM2, another 750 GB to QM3, etc., which would all end up sitting unused 99.99% of the time, but could certainly be useful at anytime.

Currently we have to use a RCVR channels Message Retry Count and Interval to try and throttle how fast messages get off loaded to a DLQ, with serious impacts to that channel's throughput for all the other innocent app's messages trying to share. Having giant jumbo DLQs would allow us to tune down these message retry counts and intervals, making for better channel performance in a shared environment when one app starts misbehaving.



Business justification:
If we could segregate the system queues from the app queues and the DLQ, we could make it more likely that the QM would not encounter a disk full situation because some app on some other Queue Manager continued to send massive volumes of messages causing a spillover to the DLQ. The common queues like DLQs and XMITQs need to be able to handle an occasional BIG message, and the occasional burst of millions of little messages, so we are forced to create the Max Q Depth and Max Message length of these queues in such a way that we are vulnerable to having the queue hold millions of small to big messages, overwhelming the underlying storage. On a shared queue manager with dozens or hundreds of queues it's not realistic to set every queue's Max Q Depth and Max Message Size to low enough levels where there is zero chance of filling your one and only amount of disk space for the entire QM. Being able to segregate queues with a higher likelihood of having to hold a large amount of data to separate storage would be very useful. Being able to segregate an app's queues to dedicated storage would allow us to make the app that requires big Max Q Depth and Max Message Size go onto their own storage, which we could then charge back to them.




Peter Potkay




************************************************************
This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies.
************************************************************

________________________________
List Archive<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html> - Manage Your List Settings<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1> - Unsubscribe<mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com<http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>

This message, including any attachments, is the property of Sears Holdings Corporation and/or one of its subsidiaries. It is confidential and may contain proprietary or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it without reading the contents. Thank you.

To unsubscribe, write to LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org and,
in the message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES
Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in
the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com
Archive: http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html
Tim Zielke
2014-02-06 14:55:36 UTC
Permalink
I can't really comment on Windows since I am not as familiar with that environment, but for Unix/Linux wouldn't symbolic links meet the need for this RFE? As most shops are probably currently doing for MQ Unix/Linux, we currently turn /var/mqm/log into a symbolic link and point it to its own file system that is separate from the /var/mqm filesystem. I would assume you could do the same approach for any queue directory or file under /var/mqm/qmgrs/MYQMGR/queues and turn it into a symbolic link that points to its own filesystem. Or is this RFE looking for a more MQ configurable way to do this that does not require the administrator to set up symbolic links?

Thanks,
Tim

From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Coombs, Lawrence
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:01 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix

Peter - This is an excellent RFE and well overdue. Someone asked me a question along the lines of this RFE the other day and you verbalized everything I was thinking.
Every administrator on the list should vote for this one.

Now!!!!!!!!!!!!

From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Potkay, Peter M (CTO Architecture + Engineering)
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 6:56 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/***@public.gmane.orgAC.AT>
Subject: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix

You can vote for this RFE here if you think it's a good idea:

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=44622



Description:
Similar to z/OS, we would like the ability to have one or more queues use a separate and dedicated of storage on Windows and Unix MQ systems.


Use case:
For example on Windows, I would like to be able to create a T:\ drive and then have the SYSTEM.DEAD.LETTER.QUEUE use that for its storage, while the rest of the Queue Manager's queues reside on the E:\ drive. On Linux, I would like to be able to create a new file system separate from /var/mqm and put QM1.XMITQ and QM2.XMITQ there, while all other queues reside in the default location.

Another use case might be to have all the queue manager's system queues (other than the DLQ) reside on the default storage, have the DLQ reside on its own storage, and app queues reside on a third section of storage. If a new app comes to use this queue manager and they have the need for a lot of deep queues occasionally, we could create a 4th area of storage and build their queues there.

Another use case would be to get a very NAS qTree, maybe 750 GB, to be used for Dead Letter Queues. Connect this NAS to each MQ server over 10 gigabit. And then aim each QM's DLQ towards this one common qTree. The odds of multiple QMs needing a large amount of storage for their DLQs at the same time is very small. But at any one time each QM would have the ability to queue up to 750 GB of dead letter messages, without having to give 750 GB of storage to QM1, another 750 GB to QM2, another 750 GB to QM3, etc., which would all end up sitting unused 99.99% of the time, but could certainly be useful at anytime.

Currently we have to use a RCVR channels Message Retry Count and Interval to try and throttle how fast messages get off loaded to a DLQ, with serious impacts to that channel's throughput for all the other innocent app's messages trying to share. Having giant jumbo DLQs would allow us to tune down these message retry counts and intervals, making for better channel performance in a shared environment when one app starts misbehaving.



Business justification:
If we could segregate the system queues from the app queues and the DLQ, we could make it more likely that the QM would not encounter a disk full situation because some app on some other Queue Manager continued to send massive volumes of messages causing a spillover to the DLQ. The common queues like DLQs and XMITQs need to be able to handle an occasional BIG message, and the occasional burst of millions of little messages, so we are forced to create the Max Q Depth and Max Message length of these queues in such a way that we are vulnerable to having the queue hold millions of small to big messages, overwhelming the underlying storage. On a shared queue manager with dozens or hundreds of queues it's not realistic to set every queue's Max Q Depth and Max Message Size to low enough levels where there is zero chance of filling your one and only amount of disk space for the entire QM. Being able to segregate queues with a higher likelihood of having to hold a large amount of data to separate storage would be very useful. Being able to segregate an app's queues to dedicated storage would allow us to make the app that requires big Max Q Depth and Max Message Size go onto their own storage, which we could then charge back to them.




Peter Potkay




************************************************************
This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies.
************************************************************

________________________________
List Archive<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html> - Manage Your List Settings<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1> - Unsubscribe<mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com<http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>
This message, including any attachments, is the property of Sears Holdings Corporation and/or one of its subsidiaries. It is confidential and may contain proprietary or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it without reading the contents. Thank you.

________________________________
List Archive<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html> - Manage Your List Settings<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1> - Unsubscribe<mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com<http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>

To unsubscribe, write to LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org and,
in the message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES
Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in
the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com
Archive: http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html
Potkay, Peter M (CTO Architecture + Engineering)
2014-02-06 15:23:43 UTC
Permalink
It's looking for an official way to do this.

Ideally supporting both doing it at q creation time, and/or after the fact with a queue that has messages in it already.

But I would be happy enough if we would be required to empty the queue, delete it, and then recreate it aiming at the new storage somehow. Storage Classes come to Windows / Linux perhaps?!?!?


Peter Potkay


From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Tim Zielke
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:56 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix

I can't really comment on Windows since I am not as familiar with that environment, but for Unix/Linux wouldn't symbolic links meet the need for this RFE? As most shops are probably currently doing for MQ Unix/Linux, we currently turn /var/mqm/log into a symbolic link and point it to its own file system that is separate from the /var/mqm filesystem. I would assume you could do the same approach for any queue directory or file under /var/mqm/qmgrs/MYQMGR/queues and turn it into a symbolic link that points to its own filesystem. Or is this RFE looking for a more MQ configurable way to do this that does not require the administrator to set up symbolic links?

Thanks,
Tim

From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Coombs, Lawrence
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:01 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/***@public.gmane.orgAC.AT>
Subject: Re: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix

Peter - This is an excellent RFE and well overdue. Someone asked me a question along the lines of this RFE the other day and you verbalized everything I was thinking.
Every administrator on the list should vote for this one.

Now!!!!!!!!!!!!

From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Potkay, Peter M (CTO Architecture + Engineering)
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 6:56 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/***@public.gmane.orgAC.AT>
Subject: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix

You can vote for this RFE here if you think it's a good idea:

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=44622



Description:
Similar to z/OS, we would like the ability to have one or more queues use a separate and dedicated of storage on Windows and Unix MQ systems.


Use case:
For example on Windows, I would like to be able to create a T:\ drive and then have the SYSTEM.DEAD.LETTER.QUEUE use that for its storage, while the rest of the Queue Manager's queues reside on the E:\ drive. On Linux, I would like to be able to create a new file system separate from /var/mqm and put QM1.XMITQ and QM2.XMITQ there, while all other queues reside in the default location.

Another use case might be to have all the queue manager's system queues (other than the DLQ) reside on the default storage, have the DLQ reside on its own storage, and app queues reside on a third section of storage. If a new app comes to use this queue manager and they have the need for a lot of deep queues occasionally, we could create a 4th area of storage and build their queues there.

Another use case would be to get a very NAS qTree, maybe 750 GB, to be used for Dead Letter Queues. Connect this NAS to each MQ server over 10 gigabit. And then aim each QM's DLQ towards this one common qTree. The odds of multiple QMs needing a large amount of storage for their DLQs at the same time is very small. But at any one time each QM would have the ability to queue up to 750 GB of dead letter messages, without having to give 750 GB of storage to QM1, another 750 GB to QM2, another 750 GB to QM3, etc., which would all end up sitting unused 99.99% of the time, but could certainly be useful at anytime.

Currently we have to use a RCVR channels Message Retry Count and Interval to try and throttle how fast messages get off loaded to a DLQ, with serious impacts to that channel's throughput for all the other innocent app's messages trying to share. Having giant jumbo DLQs would allow us to tune down these message retry counts and intervals, making for better channel performance in a shared environment when one app starts misbehaving.



Business justification:
If we could segregate the system queues from the app queues and the DLQ, we could make it more likely that the QM would not encounter a disk full situation because some app on some other Queue Manager continued to send massive volumes of messages causing a spillover to the DLQ. The common queues like DLQs and XMITQs need to be able to handle an occasional BIG message, and the occasional burst of millions of little messages, so we are forced to create the Max Q Depth and Max Message length of these queues in such a way that we are vulnerable to having the queue hold millions of small to big messages, overwhelming the underlying storage. On a shared queue manager with dozens or hundreds of queues it's not realistic to set every queue's Max Q Depth and Max Message Size to low enough levels where there is zero chance of filling your one and only amount of disk space for the entire QM. Being able to segregate queues with a higher likelihood of having to hold a large amount of data to separate storage would be very useful. Being able to segregate an app's queues to dedicated storage would allow us to make the app that requires big Max Q Depth and Max Message Size go onto their own storage, which we could then charge back to them.




Peter Potkay




************************************************************
This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies.
************************************************************

________________________________
List Archive<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html> - Manage Your List Settings<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1> - Unsubscribe<mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com<http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>
This message, including any attachments, is the property of Sears Holdings Corporation and/or one of its subsidiaries. It is confidential and may contain proprietary or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it without reading the contents. Thank you.

________________________________
List Archive<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html> - Manage Your List Settings<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1> - Unsubscribe<mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com<http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>

________________________________
List Archive<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html> - Manage Your List Settings<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1> - Unsubscribe<mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com<http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>
************************************************************
This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies.
************************************************************

To unsubscribe, write to LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org and,
in the message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES
Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in
the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com
Archive: http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html
Roger Lacroix
2014-02-06 15:57:02 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

> Storage Classes come to Windows / Linux perhaps?!?!?

Don't get me started. :) I have been grumbling
about this since the 90's when I worked at Candle.

What in the world is wrong with doing the following on distributed platforms?

i.e. Windows
DEFINE STGCLASS('SC01') PATH('T:\')
DEFINE QLOCAL('TEST.Q1') STGCLASS('SC01')

i.e. Linux & Unix
DEFINE STGCLASS('SC01') PATH('/some/other/place')
DEFINE QLOCAL('TEST.Q1') STGCLASS('SC01')

I know I'm not the smartest pencil in the drawer
but given that MQ has been around for 20 years,
you would have thought by now, someone at IBM
would have brought the storage class concept to distributed platforms.

Regards,
Roger Lacroix
Capitalware Inc.

At 10:23 AM 2/6/2014, you wrote:
>It’s looking for an official way to do this.
>
>Ideally supporting both doing it at q creation
>time, and/or after the fact with a queue that has messages in it already.
>
>But I would be happy enough if we would be
>required to empty the queue, delete it, and then
>recreate it aiming at the new storage somehow.
>Storage Classes come to Windows / Linux perhaps?!?!?
>
>
>Peter Potkay
>
>
>From: MQSeries List
>[mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Tim Zielke
>Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:56 AM
>To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
>Subject: Re: Request For Enhancement: Allow
>dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix
>
>I can’t really comment on Windows since I am not
>as familiar with that environment, but for
>Unix/Linux wouldn’t symbolic links meet the need
>for this RFE? As most shops are probably
>currently doing for MQ Unix/Linux, we currently
>turn /var/mqm/log into a symbolic link and point
>it to its own file system that is separate from
>the /var/mqm filesystem. I would assume you
>could do the same approach for any queue
>directory or file under
>/var/mqm/qmgrs/MYQMGR/queues and turn it into a
>symbolic link that points to its own
>filesystem. Or is this RFE looking for a more
>MQ configurable way to do this that does not
>require the administrator to set up symbolic links?
>
>Thanks,
>Tim
>
>From: MQSeries List
>[<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org>mailto:MQSERIES-***@public.gmane.orgWIEN.AC.AT]
>On Behalf Of Coombs, Lawrence
>Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:01 AM
>To:
><mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org>MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/***@public.gmane.orgAT
>Subject: Re: Request For Enhancement: Allow
>dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix
>
>Peter – This is an excellent RFE and well
>overdue. Someone asked me a question along the
>lines of this RFE the other day and you verbalized everything I was thinking.
>Every administrator on the list should vote for this one.
>
>Now!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>From: MQSeries List
>[<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org>mailto:MQSERIES-***@public.gmane.orgWIEN.AC.AT]
>On Behalf Of Potkay, Peter M (CTO Architecture + Engineering)
>Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 6:56 AM
>To:
><mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org>MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/***@public.gmane.orgAT
>Subject: Request For Enhancement: Allow
>dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix
>
>You can vote for this RFE here if you think it’s a good idea:
>
><http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=44622>http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=44622
>
>
>
>Description:
>Similar to z/OS, we would like the ability to
>have one or more queues use a separate and
>dedicated of storage on Windows and Unix MQ systems.
>
>
>Use case:
>For example on Windows, I would like to be able
>to create a T:\ drive and then have the
>SYSTEM.DEAD.LETTER.QUEUE use that for its
>storage, while the rest of the Queue Manager's
>queues reside on the E:\ drive. On Linux, I
>would like to be able to create a new file
>system separate from /var/mqm and put QM1.XMITQ
>and QM2.XMITQ there, while all other queues reside in the default location.
>
>Another use case might be to have all the queue
>manager's system queues (other than the DLQ)
>reside on the default storage, have the DLQ
>reside on its own storage, and app queues reside
>on a third section of storage. If a new app
>comes to use this queue manager and they have
>the need for a lot of deep queues occasionally,
>we could create a 4th area of storage and build their queues there.
>
>Another use case would be to get a very NAS
>qTree, maybe 750 GB, to be used for Dead Letter
>Queues. Connect this NAS to each MQ server over
>10 gigabit. And then aim each QM's DLQ towards
>this one common qTree. The odds of multiple QMs
>needing a large amount of storage for their DLQs
>at the same time is very small. But at any one
>time each QM would have the ability to queue up
>to 750 GB of dead letter messages, without
>having to give 750 GB of storage to QM1, another
>750 GB to QM2, another 750 GB to QM3,
>etc., which would all end up sitting unused
>99.99% of the time, but could certainly be useful at anytime.
>
>Currently we have to use a RCVR channels Message
>Retry Count and Interval to try and throttle how
>fast messages get off loaded to a DLQ, with
>serious impacts to that channel's throughput for
>all the other innocent app's messages trying to
>share. Having giant jumbo DLQs would allow us to
>tune down these message retry counts and
>intervals, making for better channel performance
>in a shared environment when one app starts misbehaving.
>
>
>
>Business justification:
>If we could segregate the system queues from the
>app queues and the DLQ, we could make it more
>likely that the QM would not encounter a disk
>full situation because some app on some other
>Queue Manager continued to send massive volumes
>of messages causing a spillover to the DLQ. The
>common queues like DLQs and XMITQs need to be
>able to handle an occasional BIG message, and
>the occasional burst of millions of little
>messages, so we are forced to create the Max Q
>Depth and Max Message length of these queues in
>such a way that we are vulnerable to having the
>queue hold millions of small to big messages,
>overwhelming the underlying storage. On a shared
>queue manager with dozens or hundreds of queues
>it’s not realistic to set every queue's Max Q
>Depth and Max Message Size to low enough levels
>where there is zero chance of filling your one
>and only amount of disk space for the entire QM.
>Being able to segregate queues with a higher
>likelihood of having to hold a large amount of
>data to separate storage would be very useful.
>Being able to segregate an app's queues to
>dedicated storage would allow us to make the app
>that requires big Max Q Depth and Max Message
>Size go onto their own storage, which we could then charge back to them.
>
>
>
>
>Peter Potkay
>
>
>
>
>************************************************************
>This communication, including attachments, is
>for the exclusive use of addressee and may
>contain proprietary, confidential and/or
>privileged information. If you are not the
>intended recipient, any use, copying,
>disclosure, dissemination or distribution is
>strictly prohibited. If you are not the
>intended recipient, please notify the sender
>immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies.
>************************************************************
>
>
>----------
><http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html>List
>Archive -
><http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1>Manage
>Your List Settings -
><mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>Unsubscribe
>
>
>Instructions for managing your mailing list
>subscription are provided in the Listserv
>General Users Guide available at
><http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>http://www.lsoft.com
>This message, including any attachments, is the
>property of Sears Holdings Corporation and/or
>one of its subsidiaries. It is confidential and
>may contain proprietary or legally privileged
>information. If you are not the intended
>recipient, please delete it without reading the contents. Thank you.
>
>
>----------
><http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html>List
>Archive -
><http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1>Manage
>Your List Settings -
><mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>Unsubscribe
>
>
>Instructions for managing your mailing list
>subscription are provided in the Listserv
>General Users Guide available at
><http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>http://www.lsoft.com
>
>
>----------
><http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html>List
>Archive -
><http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1>Manage
>Your List Settings -
><mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>Unsubscribe
>
>
>Instructions for managing your mailing list
>subscription are provided in the Listserv
>General Users Guide available at
><http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>http://www.lsoft.com
>
>************************************************************
>This communication, including attachments, is
>for the exclusive use of addressee and may
>contain proprietary, confidential and/or
>privileged information. If you are not the
>intended recipient, any use, copying,
>disclosure, dissemination or distribution is
>strictly prohibited. If you are not the
>intended recipient, please notify the sender
>immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies.
>************************************************************
>
>
>----------
><http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html>List
>Archive -
><http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1>Manage
>Your List Settings -
><mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>Unsubscribe
>
>
>Instructions for managing your mailing list
>subscription are provided in the Listserv
>General Users Guide available at
><http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>http://www.lsoft.com

To unsubscribe, write to LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org and,
in the message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES
Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in
the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com
Archive: http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html
Tim Zielke
2014-02-06 16:19:49 UTC
Permalink
I voted for the RFE, now that I better understand it.

Roger - Your suggestion is a good one and would be a good comment to add to the RFE on how it could be implemented.

From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lacroix
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:57 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix

Hi,

> Storage Classes come to Windows / Linux perhaps?!?!?

Don't get me started. :) I have been grumbling about this since the 90's when I worked at Candle.

What in the world is wrong with doing the following on distributed platforms?

i.e. Windows
DEFINE STGCLASS('SC01') PATH('T:\')
DEFINE QLOCAL('TEST.Q1') STGCLASS('SC01')

i.e. Linux & Unix
DEFINE STGCLASS('SC01') PATH('/some/other/place')
DEFINE QLOCAL('TEST.Q1') STGCLASS('SC01')

I know I'm not the smartest pencil in the drawer but given that MQ has been around for 20 years, you would have thought by now, someone at IBM would have brought the storage class concept to distributed platforms.

Regards,
Roger Lacroix
Capitalware Inc.

At 10:23 AM 2/6/2014, you wrote:

It's looking for an official way to do this.

Ideally supporting both doing it at q creation time, and/or after the fact with a queue that has messages in it already.

But I would be happy enough if we would be required to empty the queue, delete it, and then recreate it aiming at the new storage somehow. Storage Classes come to Windows / Linux perhaps?!?!?


Peter Potkay


From: MQSeries List [ mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Tim Zielke
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:56 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/***@public.gmane.orgAC.AT>
Subject: Re: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix

I can't really comment on Windows since I am not as familiar with that environment, but for Unix/Linux wouldn't symbolic links meet the need for this RFE? As most shops are probably currently doing for MQ Unix/Linux, we currently turn /var/mqm/log into a symbolic link and point it to its own file system that is separate from the /var/mqm filesystem. I would assume you could do the same approach for any queue directory or file under /var/mqm/qmgrs/MYQMGR/queues and turn it into a symbolic link that points to its own filesystem. Or is this RFE looking for a more MQ configurable way to do this that does not require the administrator to set up symbolic links?

Thanks,
Tim

From: MQSeries List [ mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Coombs, Lawrence
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:01 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/***@public.gmane.orgAC.AT>
Subject: Re: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix

Peter - This is an excellent RFE and well overdue. Someone asked me a question along the lines of this RFE the other day and you verbalized everything I was thinking.
Every administrator on the list should vote for this one.

Now!!!!!!!!!!!!

From: MQSeries List [ mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Potkay, Peter M (CTO Architecture + Engineering)
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 6:56 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/***@public.gmane.orgAC.AT>
Subject: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix

You can vote for this RFE here if you think it's a good idea:

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=44622



Description:
Similar to z/OS, we would like the ability to have one or more queues use a separate and dedicated of storage on Windows and Unix MQ systems.


Use case:
For example on Windows, I would like to be able to create a T:\ drive and then have the SYSTEM.DEAD.LETTER.QUEUE use that for its storage, while the rest of the Queue Manager's queues reside on the E:\ drive. On Linux, I would like to be able to create a new file system separate from /var/mqm and put QM1.XMITQ and QM2.XMITQ there, while all other queues reside in the default location.

Another use case might be to have all the queue manager's system queues (other than the DLQ) reside on the default storage, have the DLQ reside on its own storage, and app queues reside on a third section of storage. If a new app comes to use this queue manager and they have the need for a lot of deep queues occasionally, we could create a 4th area of storage and build their queues there.

Another use case would be to get a very NAS qTree, maybe 750 GB, to be used for Dead Letter Queues. Connect this NAS to each MQ server over 10 gigabit. And then aim each QM's DLQ towards this one common qTree. The odds of multiple QMs needing a large amount of storage for their DLQs at the same time is very small. But at any one time each QM would have the ability to queue up to 750 GB of dead letter messages, without having to give 750 GB of storage to QM1, another 750 GB to QM2, another 750 GB to QM3, etc., which would all end up sitting unused 99.99% of the time, but could certainly be useful at anytime.

Currently we have to use a RCVR channels Message Retry Count and Interval to try and throttle how fast messages get off loaded to a DLQ, with serious impacts to that channel's throughput for all the other innocent app's messages trying to share. Having giant jumbo DLQs would allow us to tune down these message retry counts and intervals, making for better channel performance in a shared environment when one app starts misbehaving.



Business justification:
If we could segregate the system queues from the app queues and the DLQ, we could make it more likely that the QM would not encounter a disk full situation because some app on some other Queue Manager continued to send massive volumes of messages causing a spillover to the DLQ. The common queues like DLQs and XMITQs need to be able to handle an occasional BIG message, and the occasional burst of millions of little messages, so we are forced to create the Max Q Depth and Max Message length of these queues in such a way that we are vulnerable to having the queue hold millions of small to big messages, overwhelming the underlying storage. On a shared queue manager with dozens or hundreds of queues it's not realistic to set every queue's Max Q Depth and Max Message Size to low enough levels where there is zero chance of filling your one and only amount of disk space for the entire QM. Being able to segregate queues with a higher likelihood of having to hold a large amount of data to separate storage would be very useful. Being able to segregate an app's queues to dedicated storage would allow us to make the app that requires big Max Q Depth and Max Message Size go onto their own storage, which we could then charge back to them.




Peter Potkay




************************************************************
This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies.
************************************************************

________________________________
List Archive<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html> - Manage Your List Settings<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1> - Unsubscribe<mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com<http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>
This message, including any attachments, is the property of Sears Holdings Corporation and/or one of its subsidiaries. It is confidential and may contain proprietary or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it without reading the contents. Thank you.

________________________________
List Archive<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html> - Manage Your List Settings<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1> - Unsubscribe<mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com<http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>

________________________________
List Archive<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html> - Manage Your List Settings<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1> - Unsubscribe<mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com<http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>

************************************************************
This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies.
************************************************************
________________________________
List Archive<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html> - Manage Your List Settings<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1> - Unsubscribe<mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com<http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>

________________________________
List Archive<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html> - Manage Your List Settings<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1> - Unsubscribe<mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com<http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>

To unsubscribe, write to LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org and,
in the message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES
Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in
the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com
Archive: http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html
Tim Crossland
2014-02-07 17:18:51 UTC
Permalink
This is an excellent idea.

The idea of mapping queues to storage classes would work especially well where MQ is being provided in an IAAS or PAAS model, potentially to multiple businesses.
Storage classes would provide functionality so that it would be possible to isolate groups of queues, ensuring that one rogue application doesn't impact another businesses.

Regards,

Tim Crossland
Senior Consultant

M: +44 (0)7725 208776
T: +44 (0)207 147 9955


[Description: cid:image001.jpg-n8Y/V8b+***@public.gmane.org] Solutions Ltd www.iconsolutions.com



From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Tim Zielke
Sent: 06 February 2014 16:20
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix

I voted for the RFE, now that I better understand it.

Roger - Your suggestion is a good one and would be a good comment to add to the RFE on how it could be implemented.

From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lacroix
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:57 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/***@public.gmane.orgAC.AT>
Subject: Re: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix

Hi,

> Storage Classes come to Windows / Linux perhaps?!?!?

Don't get me started. :) I have been grumbling about this since the 90's when I worked at Candle.

What in the world is wrong with doing the following on distributed platforms?

i.e. Windows
DEFINE STGCLASS('SC01') PATH('T:\')
DEFINE QLOCAL('TEST.Q1') STGCLASS('SC01')

i.e. Linux & Unix
DEFINE STGCLASS('SC01') PATH('/some/other/place')
DEFINE QLOCAL('TEST.Q1') STGCLASS('SC01')

I know I'm not the smartest pencil in the drawer but given that MQ has been around for 20 years, you would have thought by now, someone at IBM would have brought the storage class concept to distributed platforms.

Regards,
Roger Lacroix
Capitalware Inc.

At 10:23 AM 2/6/2014, you wrote:
It's looking for an official way to do this.

Ideally supporting both doing it at q creation time, and/or after the fact with a queue that has messages in it already.

But I would be happy enough if we would be required to empty the queue, delete it, and then recreate it aiming at the new storage somehow. Storage Classes come to Windows / Linux perhaps?!?!?


Peter Potkay


From: MQSeries List [ mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Tim Zielke
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:56 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/***@public.gmane.orgAC.AT>
Subject: Re: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix

I can't really comment on Windows since I am not as familiar with that environment, but for Unix/Linux wouldn't symbolic links meet the need for this RFE? As most shops are probably currently doing for MQ Unix/Linux, we currently turn /var/mqm/log into a symbolic link and point it to its own file system that is separate from the /var/mqm filesystem. I would assume you could do the same approach for any queue directory or file under /var/mqm/qmgrs/MYQMGR/queues and turn it into a symbolic link that points to its own filesystem. Or is this RFE looking for a more MQ configurable way to do this that does not require the administrator to set up symbolic links?

Thanks,
Tim

From: MQSeries List [ mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Coombs, Lawrence
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:01 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/***@public.gmane.orgAC.AT>
Subject: Re: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix

Peter - This is an excellent RFE and well overdue. Someone asked me a question along the lines of this RFE the other day and you verbalized everything I was thinking.
Every administrator on the list should vote for this one.

Now!!!!!!!!!!!!

From: MQSeries List [ mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Potkay, Peter M (CTO Architecture + Engineering)
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 6:56 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/***@public.gmane.orgAC.AT>
Subject: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix

You can vote for this RFE here if you think it's a good idea:

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=44622



Description:
Similar to z/OS, we would like the ability to have one or more queues use a separate and dedicated of storage on Windows and Unix MQ systems.


Use case:
For example on Windows, I would like to be able to create a T:\ drive and then have the SYSTEM.DEAD.LETTER.QUEUE use that for its storage, while the rest of the Queue Manager's queues reside on the E:\ drive. On Linux, I would like to be able to create a new file system separate from /var/mqm and put QM1.XMITQ and QM2.XMITQ there, while all other queues reside in the default location.

Another use case might be to have all the queue manager's system queues (other than the DLQ) reside on the default storage, have the DLQ reside on its own storage, and app queues reside on a third section of storage. If a new app comes to use this queue manager and they have the need for a lot of deep queues occasionally, we could create a 4th area of storage and build their queues there.

Another use case would be to get a very NAS qTree, maybe 750 GB, to be used for Dead Letter Queues. Connect this NAS to each MQ server over 10 gigabit. And then aim each QM's DLQ towards this one common qTree. The odds of multiple QMs needing a large amount of storage for their DLQs at the same time is very small. But at any one time each QM would have the ability to queue up to 750 GB of dead letter messages, without having to give 750 GB of storage to QM1, another 750 GB to QM2, another 750 GB to QM3, etc., which would all end up sitting unused 99.99% of the time, but could certainly be useful at anytime.

Currently we have to use a RCVR channels Message Retry Count and Interval to try and throttle how fast messages get off loaded to a DLQ, with serious impacts to that channel's throughput for all the other innocent app's messages trying to share. Having giant jumbo DLQs would allow us to tune down these message retry counts and intervals, making for better channel performance in a shared environment when one app starts misbehaving.



Business justification:
If we could segregate the system queues from the app queues and the DLQ, we could make it more likely that the QM would not encounter a disk full situation because some app on some other Queue Manager continued to send massive volumes of messages causing a spillover to the DLQ. The common queues like DLQs and XMITQs need to be able to handle an occasional BIG message, and the occasional burst of millions of little messages, so we are forced to create the Max Q Depth and Max Message length of these queues in such a way that we are vulnerable to having the queue hold millions of small to big messages, overwhelming the underlying storage. On a shared queue manager with dozens or hundreds of queues it's not realistic to set every queue's Max Q Depth and Max Message Size to low enough levels where there is zero chance of filling your one and only amount of disk space for the entire QM. Being able to segregate queues with a higher likelihood of having to hold a large amount of data to separate storage would be very useful. Being able to segregate an app's queues to dedicated storage would allow us to make the app that requires big Max Q Depth and Max Message Size go onto their own storage, which we could then charge back to them.




Peter Potkay




************************************************************
This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies.
************************************************************

________________________________
List Archive<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html> - Manage Your List Settings<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1> - Unsubscribe<mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com<http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>
This message, including any attachments, is the property of Sears Holdings Corporation and/or one of its subsidiaries. It is confidential and may contain proprietary or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it without reading the contents. Thank you.

________________________________
List Archive<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html> - Manage Your List Settings<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1> - Unsubscribe<mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com<http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>

________________________________
List Archive<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html> - Manage Your List Settings<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1> - Unsubscribe<mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com<http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>

************************************************************
This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies.
************************************************************
________________________________
List Archive<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html> - Manage Your List Settings<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1> - Unsubscribe<mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com<http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>

________________________________
List Archive<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html> - Manage Your List Settings<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1> - Unsubscribe<mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com<http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>

________________________________
List Archive<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html> - Manage Your List Settings<http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mqser-l&A=1> - Unsubscribe<mailto:LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org?subject=Unsubscribe&BODY=signoff%20mqseries>

Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com<http://www.lsoft.com/resources/manuals.asp>

To unsubscribe, write to LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org and,
in the message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES
Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in
the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com
Archive: http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html
Glenn Baddeley
2014-02-09 22:26:38 UTC
Permalink
Hi Roger & all,

I added a couple of comments to the RFE a few of days ago to this effect.

Glenn.

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 17:18:51 +0000, Tim Crossland
<Tim.Crossland-4w+cWI8ve926XNm7qlI133zNABE0Ld/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

>This is an excellent idea.
>
>The idea of mapping queues to storage classes would work especially well
where MQ is being provided in an IAAS or PAAS model, potentially to multiple
businesses.
>Storage classes would provide functionality so that it would be possible to
isolate groups of queues, ensuring that one rogue application doesn't impact
another businesses.
>
>Regards,
>
>Tim Crossland
>Senior Consultant
>
>M: +44 (0)7725 208776
>T: +44 (0)207 147 9955
>
>
>[Description: cid:image001.jpg-n8Y/V8b+***@public.gmane.org] Solutions Ltd
www.iconsolutions.com
>
>
>
>From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On
Behalf Of Tim Zielke
>Sent: 06 February 2014 16:20
>To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
>Subject: Re: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage on
a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix
>
>I voted for the RFE, now that I better understand it.
>
>Roger - Your suggestion is a good one and would be a good comment to add
to the RFE on how it could be implemented.
>
>From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On
Behalf Of Roger Lacroix
>Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:57 AM
>To:
MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd8hNtF/***@public.gmane.org
NIWIEN.AC.AT>
>Subject: Re: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage on
a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix
>
>Hi,
>
>> Storage Classes come to Windows / Linux perhaps?!?!?
>
>Don't get me started. :) I have been grumbling about this since the 90's
when I worked at Candle.
>
>What in the world is wrong with doing the following on distributed platforms?
>
>i.e. Windows
>DEFINE STGCLASS('SC01') PATH('T:\')
>DEFINE QLOCAL('TEST.Q1') STGCLASS('SC01')
>
>i.e. Linux & Unix
>DEFINE STGCLASS('SC01') PATH('/some/other/place')
>DEFINE QLOCAL('TEST.Q1') STGCLASS('SC01')
>
>I know I'm not the smartest pencil in the drawer but given that MQ has been
around for 20 years, you would have thought by now, someone at IBM would
have brought the storage class concept to distributed platforms.
>
>Regards,
>Roger Lacroix
>Capitalware Inc.

To unsubscribe, write to LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org and,
in the message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES
Barton, Linda
2014-02-27 11:54:47 UTC
Permalink
Love the idea. As a UNIX MQ support person, formerly from the mainframe MQ group...I get it! Got my vote!


Linda Barton



-----Original Message-----
From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Baddeley
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 5:27 PM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage on a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix

Hi Roger & all,

I added a couple of comments to the RFE a few of days ago to this effect.

Glenn.

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 17:18:51 +0000, Tim Crossland <***@ICONSOLUTIONS.COM> wrote:

>This is an excellent idea.
>
>The idea of mapping queues to storage classes would work especially
>well
where MQ is being provided in an IAAS or PAAS model, potentially to multiple businesses.
>Storage classes would provide functionality so that it would be
>possible to
isolate groups of queues, ensuring that one rogue application doesn't impact another businesses.
>
>Regards,
>
>Tim Crossland
>Senior Consultant
>
>M: +44 (0)7725 208776
>T: +44 (0)207 147 9955
>
>
>[Description: cid:image001.jpg-n8Y/V8b+***@public.gmane.org] Solutions Ltd
www.iconsolutions.com
>
>
>
>From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On
Behalf Of Tim Zielke
>Sent: 06 February 2014 16:20
>To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
>Subject: Re: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage
>on
a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix
>
>I voted for the RFE, now that I better understand it.
>
>Roger - Your suggestion is a good one and would be a good comment to
>add
to the RFE on how it could be implemented.
>
>From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On
Behalf Of Roger Lacroix
>Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:57 AM
>To:
MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd8hNtF/***@public.gmane.org
NIWIEN.AC.AT>
>Subject: Re: Request For Enhancement: Allow dedicated separate storage
>on
a queue level basis for MQ on Windows and Unix
>
>Hi,
>
>> Storage Classes come to Windows / Linux perhaps?!?!?
>
>Don't get me started. :) I have been grumbling about this since the
>90's
when I worked at Candle.
>
>What in the world is wrong with doing the following on distributed platforms?
>
>i.e. Windows
>DEFINE STGCLASS('SC01') PATH('T:\')
>DEFINE QLOCAL('TEST.Q1') STGCLASS('SC01')
>
>i.e. Linux & Unix
>DEFINE STGCLASS('SC01') PATH('/some/other/place') DEFINE
>QLOCAL('TEST.Q1') STGCLASS('SC01')
>
>I know I'm not the smartest pencil in the drawer but given that MQ has
>been
around for 20 years, you would have thought by now, someone at IBM would have brought the storage class concept to distributed platforms.
>
>Regards,
>Roger Lacroix
>Capitalware Inc.

To unsubscribe, write to LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org and, in the message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com
Archive: http://listserv.meduniwien.ac.at/archives/mqser-l.html

To unsubscribe, write to LISTSERV-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org and,
in the message body (not the subject), write: SIGNOFF MQSERIES
Loading...