Discussion:
SSL client support
Frank Swarbrick
2014-10-06 21:12:06 UTC
Permalink
I am confused. For an MQ client application to support SSL, are there actually application level changes that need to be made, and not just client configuration changes?

This is using JMS, in case that matters.

Thanks,
Frank

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Jefferson Lowrey
2014-10-07 12:58:18 UTC
Permalink
Well, nobody has replied to the list on this, probably you got a few
replies to the reply-to.

The answer is, at least as far as I know, that the application should
never require any changes to support MQ SSL connections. Especially if
it's JMS. It's entirely an administrative configuration, in setting up
the CCDT or the SSL environment variables and then the relevant properties
on the SVRCONN. And the keyrings... and ...


Thank you,

Jeff Lowrey




From: Frank Swarbrick
<00000006cad63953-dmarc-request-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org>
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Date: 10/06/2014 04:12 PM
Subject: [MQSERIES] SSL client support
Sent by: MQSeries List <MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org>



I am confused. For an MQ client application to support SSL, are there
actually application level changes that need to be made, and not just
client configuration changes?

This is using JMS, in case that matters.

Thanks,
Frank


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Costa, D. (Damian)
2014-10-07 13:15:26 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Unless of course we're talking about actually message encryption ie Advanced message security rather than on the connection only....
Which would imply that the apps would need to be able to encrypt and decrypt the actual payload instead of it just being encrypted on the wire?

My 2c.



From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jefferson Lowrey
Sent: 07 October 2014 02:58 PM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: SSL client support

Well, nobody has replied to the list on this, probably you got a few replies to the reply-to.

The answer is, at least as far as I know, that the application should never require any changes to support MQ SSL connections. Especially if it's JMS. It's entirely an administrative configuration, in setting up the CCDT or the SSL environment variables and then the relevant properties on the SVRCONN. And the keyrings... and ...


Thank you,

Jeff Lowrey




From: Frank Swarbrick <00000006cad63953-dmarc-request-0lvw86wZMd+bG4Fjr/***@public.gmane.orgIWIEN.AC.AT<mailto:00000006cad63953-dmarc-request-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org>>
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd8hNtF/***@public.gmane.orgNIWIEN.AC.AT>
Date: 10/06/2014 04:12 PM
Subject: [MQSERIES] SSL client support
Sent by: MQSeries List <MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org>>
________________________________



I am confused. For an MQ client application to support SSL, are there actually application level changes that need to be made, and not just client configuration changes?

This is using JMS, in case that matters.

Thanks,
Frank
________________________________
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Jefferson Lowrey
2014-10-07 13:23:33 UTC
Permalink
Well, I'm not remotely an expert on AMS, but I've seen people mumbling
about client-side interceptors, so I think it's possible to add in without
changing the application.

Take that with a giant pink mountain of salt in the Himalayas, though.

Thank you,

Jeff Lowrey




From: "Costa, D. (Damian)" <***@NEDBANK.CO.ZA>
To: ***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT
Date: 10/07/2014 08:21 AM
Subject: Re: [MQSERIES] SSL client support
Sent by: MQSeries List <***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT>



Hi,

Unless of course we’re talking about actually message encryption ie
Advanced message security rather than on the connection only
.
Which would imply that the apps would need to be able to encrypt and
decrypt the actual payload instead of it just being encrypted on the wire?

My 2c.



From: MQSeries List [mailto:***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT] On Behalf
Of Jefferson Lowrey
Sent: 07 October 2014 02:58 PM
To: ***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT
Subject: Re: SSL client support

Well, nobody has replied to the list on this, probably you got a few
replies to the reply-to.

The answer is, at least as far as I know, that the application should
never require any changes to support MQ SSL connections. Especially if
it's JMS. It's entirely an administrative configuration, in setting up
the CCDT or the SSL environment variables and then the relevant properties
on the SVRCONN. And the keyrings... and ...


Thank you,

Jeff Lowrey




From: Frank Swarbrick <
00000006cad63953-dmarc-***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT>
To: ***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT
Date: 10/06/2014 04:12 PM
Subject: [MQSERIES] SSL client support
Sent by: MQSeries List <***@LISTSERV.MEDUNIWIEN.AC.AT>




I am confused. For an MQ client application to support SSL, are there
actually application level changes that need to be made, and not just
client configuration changes?

This is using JMS, in case that matters.

Thanks,
Frank

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Tim Zielke
2014-10-07 13:25:51 UTC
Permalink
I am not a java programmer, but for the C procedural language you would have the option to have the administrator configure the SSL (i.e. CCDT) or the programmer could do the SSL set up programmatically (i.e. amqssslc.c). If java is similar, it would depend then on how the SSL is being implemented (from a configuration or programmatic standpoint).


From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Costa, D. (Damian)
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 8:15 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: SSL client support

Hi,

Unless of course we're talking about actually message encryption ie Advanced message security rather than on the connection only....
Which would imply that the apps would need to be able to encrypt and decrypt the actual payload instead of it just being encrypted on the wire?

My 2c.



From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jefferson Lowrey
Sent: 07 October 2014 02:58 PM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/***@public.gmane.orgAC.AT>
Subject: Re: SSL client support

Well, nobody has replied to the list on this, probably you got a few replies to the reply-to.

The answer is, at least as far as I know, that the application should never require any changes to support MQ SSL connections. Especially if it's JMS. It's entirely an administrative configuration, in setting up the CCDT or the SSL environment variables and then the relevant properties on the SVRCONN. And the keyrings... and ...


Thank you,

Jeff Lowrey




From: Frank Swarbrick <00000006cad63953-dmarc-request-0lvw86wZMd+bG4Fjr/***@public.gmane.orgIWIEN.AC.AT<mailto:00000006cad63953-dmarc-request-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org>>
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd8hNtF/***@public.gmane.orgNIWIEN.AC.AT>
Date: 10/06/2014 04:12 PM
Subject: [MQSERIES] SSL client support
Sent by: MQSeries List <MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org<mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org>>
________________________________



I am confused. For an MQ client application to support SSL, are there actually application level changes that need to be made, and not just client configuration changes?

This is using JMS, in case that matters.

Thanks,
Frank
________________________________
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Neil Casey
2014-10-07 22:32:23 UTC
Permalink
Hi folks,

Sorry… I sent the original response yesterday directly to Frank instead of to the list. Here it is again.
Hi Frank,
the fact that it is a JMS client does (or may) matter.
With a C client, the switch from non-SSL to SSL can be managed by using a channel table, environment variables and a CMS key store. No code change required.
If your Java application is running in a stand alone plain old Java VM, then you are probably going to have to change the code to make it work with SSL (at least if you want to avoid passwords showing up on command lines). You are also probably going to have to use the IBM JRE if you want any modern cipher suites to work. Triple DES will probably work with another JRE, but not much else. Most of the work can be handled by using JNDI managed connection factories, but the difficult bit is to securely access the java key store without exposing your key store pass phrase.
Unfortunately, the manual is quite unhelpful about how to make the key store available to your program. http://www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/#!/SSFKSJ_8.0.0/com.ibm.mq.dev.doc/q032390_.htm just says that it assumes that you have already done this successfully. This developerWorks article - http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/websphere/library/techarticles/0510_fehners/0510_fehners.html - (although almost 10 years old) is much more helpful. That article is referenced by this Stack Overflow answer - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2692070/connecting-to-a-websphere-mq-in-java-with-ssl-keystore - , but there is also additional information which may be useful
If your Java application is running in WebSphere Application Server (WAS), then you should be able to make the SSL configuration change in the WAS configuration rather than in your program, so the change to SSL should be transparent. If you use a different application server to host your application, you may be able to configure SSL in the connection factory without code change, but I haven’t seen it done successfully except in WAS.
Regards,
Neil
--
Neil Casey
Senior Consultant | Syntegrity Solutions

+61 414 615 334 neil.casey-VLLIzlmz+***@public.gmane.org
Syntegrity Solutions Pty Ltd | Level 23 | 40 City Road | Southgate | VIC 3006
Analyse >> Integrate >> Secure >> Educate
I am not a java programmer, but for the C procedural language you would have the option to have the administrator configure the SSL (i.e. CCDT) or the programmer could do the SSL set up programmatically (i.e. amqssslc.c). If java is similar, it would depend then on how the SSL is being implemented (from a configuration or programmatic standpoint).
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: SSL client support
Hi,
Unless of course we’re talking about actually message encryption ie Advanced message security rather than on the connection only….
Which would imply that the apps would need to be able to encrypt and decrypt the actual payload instead of it just being encrypted on the wire?
My 2c.
Sent: 07 October 2014 02:58 PM
Subject: Re: SSL client support
Well, nobody has replied to the list on this, probably you got a few replies to the reply-to.
The answer is, at least as far as I know, that the application should never require any changes to support MQ SSL connections. Especially if it's JMS. It's entirely an administrative configuration, in setting up the CCDT or the SSL environment variables and then the relevant properties on the SVRCONN. And the keyrings... and ...
Thank you,
Jeff Lowrey
Date: 10/06/2014 04:12 PM
Subject: [MQSERIES] SSL client support
I am confused. For an MQ client application to support SSL, are there actually application level changes that need to be made, and not just client configuration changes?
This is using JMS, in case that matters.
Thanks,
Frank
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T.Rob
2014-10-07 15:19:02 UTC
Permalink
No, AMS was designed specifically to *not* impact existing applications.
This is both a blessing and a curse. On the one hand - it doesn't impact
the applications! Woo hoo! What a blessing!



On the other hand, AMS is *so* transparent that the application has no way
to know anything about the AMS properties of the message, or even if AMS was
enabled when it opened the queue. At the very least the application should
be able to make assertions that a) AMS is enabled; b) queue X has a minimum
protection policy of [signed|sealed]. Ideally, the receiving app should be
able to inquire on AMS properties to obtain the distinguished name of the
sender and the sender's certificate issuer, the policy with which the
message was sent, etc.



For example, when delivering a message the QMgr would populate the AMS
properties residing within a reserved JMS properties folder of the message.
Even if someone were somehow able to insert those properties on sending a
message (for example, I send a non-AMS message with properties indicating it
was signed by Morag), the receiving QMgr would strip them as the message
arrived (throwing an event message and/or error log entry) and then
strip/overlay them when delivering the message based on the type of
protection applied, or absence thereof.



Because when the auditor shows up and asks "how do you know that AMS was
enabled when an adverse event occurred" the only answer today is to describe
all the procedural controls you have (or have not) implemented around MQ
configuration management and log scraping. A much better answer would be
"because if AMS is disabled the application sees it as a fatal error and
shuts down. Here, let me demonstrate." One imagines these assertions
expressed as managed object properties that override class methods, much as
the persistence property works.





Kind regards,

-- T.Rob



T.Robert Wyatt, Managing partner

IoPT Consulting, LLC

+1 704-443-TROB (8762) Voice/Text

+44 (0) 8714 089 546 Voice

https://ioptconsulting.com <https://ioptconsulting.com/>

https://twitter.com/tdotrob



From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
Costa, D. (Damian)
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 9:15 AM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: SSL client support



Hi,



Unless of course we're talking about actually message encryption ie Advanced
message security rather than on the connection only..

Which would imply that the apps would need to be able to encrypt and decrypt
the actual payload instead of it just being encrypted on the wire?



My 2c.







From: MQSeries List [mailto:MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
Jefferson Lowrey
Sent: 07 October 2014 02:58 PM
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: SSL client support



Well, nobody has replied to the list on this, probably you got a few replies
to the reply-to.

The answer is, at least as far as I know, that the application should never
require any changes to support MQ SSL connections. Especially if it's JMS.
It's entirely an administrative configuration, in setting up the CCDT or the
SSL environment variables and then the relevant properties on the SVRCONN.
And the keyrings... and ...


Thank you,

Jeff Lowrey




From: Frank Swarbrick
<00000006cad63953-dmarc-request-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org>
To: MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org
Date: 10/06/2014 04:12 PM
Subject: [MQSERIES] SSL client support
Sent by: MQSeries List <MQSERIES-0lvw86wZMd9k/bWDasg6f+***@public.gmane.org>

_____




I am confused. For an MQ client application to support SSL, are there
actually application level changes that need to be made, and not just client
configuration changes?

This is using JMS, in case that matters.

Thanks,
Frank

_____

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